Recruiting: Empathetic Marketing and Data Insights with AMG (Alabama Media Group)

Connect with me on LinkedIn


Follow me on Facebook where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.

Follow me on Instagram where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.

Join my email list where I will lift you up, and send tactile advice weekly to support you to grow your experience in your senior living career.

Transcript

Erin: 0:35

Welcome back to another episode of the aspire for more with Aaron podcast. Today, we're getting into some data and some numbers, which is a little uncommon and I'm excited about it, so we should all learn to be a bit more excited. About data and analytics. And today I have two of the best from Alabama media group, Mr. Bart Thaw, the vice president of marketing and Marlena Rose, an account executive for Alabama media group recruitment. Welcome. Thank you for being here.

Bart: 1:06

Thank you for having us.

Erin: 1:08

I, am excited because Bart and I are both going to be speaking at the assisted living of Alabama. I always get that confused. The assisted living association of Alabama. There's too many A's. How do you ever know which way they go in? I've been doing this for 20 years and I still get confused. Anyways, so we're both speaking there and, Bart gets the good slot on Tuesday, where he's going to talk about coping with the new normal, how to battle the tight labor market and persistent clinical shortage, which is an amazing topic.

Bart: 1:44

It's a challenging topic for sure. It is. Alabama's sitting at like stubbornly 2. 6 percent unemployment. I think if our governor had no term limits, she could keep getting elected. and the Department of Labor should keep their, their heads and economic development. We're just have a really wonderful labor market, but it's really difficult for us folks sitting on the hiring side, trying to run a business to find the right people. And I think what healthcare providers are screaming. Is that, hey, we've been in a tight labor market a lot longer than the rest of you guys. And frankly, it just never lets up. So it's really a difficult position for folks.

Erin: 2:27

Yes. And you have a very deep knowledge and knowledge base about this topic because the Alabama Media Group does an annual survey at the end of the year, each year, and you have some amazing stats that you're going to share with us on this podcast today, but also, at the association meeting. Which is exciting. So correct me if I'm wrong, but every year you do this survey and you specific to the Southeast, but maybe a little bit of focus in Alabama. Correct.

Bart: 3:01

Yeah, because we're based here. We have a huge concentration of our respondents coming from Alabama, but we also, really operate regionally touch in Tennessee and Georgia and Mississippi as well. And so we're getting results from all of those areas, Alabama being our heaviest and what we're really trying to get to the bottom of and get the pulse of, we decided really post COVID, Is to try to understand how is the landscape changing for folks who are working as nurses, and we've had CNAs, LPNs, RNs respond to this. We've had folks with advanced nursing degrees respond to this, but what's really interesting is the commonality of experience in the healthcare setting. Regardless of what credential they carry, it's very similar across those credentialing lines.

Erin: 3:54

All right, so dive in according to the Alabama board of nursing. What's the state of where we are in the state of Alabama? What's the state of the nursing? So

Bart: 4:03

their report came out recently and, we had 84, 000 nurses that were renewing in 21 and 22. and I think it's a part of the renewal. They ask them to give, do a little bitty survey. It's not very much. But just looking at some of the, some of the challenges, but more about where they are only 61, 000 of 84, 000 of those nurses. are practicing within Alabama. But here's the really scary part. 38, 000, 38, 000 nurses out of 81 are planning on retiring in the next five years from as LPNs and RNs that's scary. That's a huge number. So then you might ask, how many are coming into the profession to replace them? Only 5, 000. A year are graduates that are applying for licenses every year. So that's a deficit. If you add it up, that's 25, 000 coming in, 38, 000 going out. The checkbook does not balance. We got a deficit of 18, 000 nurses. for our state. Not sure exactly how many of those 18 are going to impact Alabama itself, since you already have, about 20, 000 that are working outside of the state but licensed here. But still, that's got to be a huge, scary impact for us because we're already at a tight labor market. And then I'll give you one more stat. If you go into our survey and we talk about businesses who are saying, I'm going to be losing people to retirement. That's scary enough. But what about the churn that businesses or providers of all types are going to experience anyway? We, according to our survey, we asked the question, are you currently, or do you plan in this year to start looking for another job? How many people said yes, 44 percent of respondents said yes. So in addition to. This huge amount leaving for you can almost look at your workforce and say half of them right now are thinking about maybe I should find another job right now. how do you run a sustainable business when you have that much churn sitting out there? That's got to be tough for folks.

Erin: 6:22

Yeah. How do you do it? Can you tell?

Bart: 6:24

look, I think what we have to do, the first thing, when you say you have a problem, you got to understand and realize you have a problem. So the first thing is to face up to it. And part of that is not just admitting that we have a labor problem and I don't know what to deal with it, but part of it is really unpacking what it, why are people saying one in nearly one in two people in our workforce saying that they're looking for another job. And I think it comes down to some of those things that brought them to the profession in the first place. and are they still experiencing those same draws to the profession and to your workplace specifically? So we also ask people why did you become a nurse? And the bar graph is like There's one line we ask. You could say other and you could respond. You could say pay. You could say work life balance, but that line that goes almost all the way across the screen says to help patients 75 percent of those 7 percent said other, and they nearly all wrote some version of to help patients. So really, it's 80 percent of the respondents like. I got into this business because it's not a business. It's a calling and I really wanted to be here But there's a difference between that sort of aspirational almost naivete That you have and what you know, they're actually experiencing in the workforce. We have noticed that we, when we ask about satisfaction with their current employer. Between 21, 22 and 23, we've seen a reduction in the dissatisfied and very dissatisfied. But we haven't necessarily seen as much increase in the very satisfied and satisfied where the increase has become is they've gone from actively dissatisfied to maybe I'm okay, but okay is not great. That could be an indication that we're just not there yet. With addressing all the pain points that folks are dealing with. And let me tell you what those are. Career development. That's one big one that actually scored one of the highest satisfaction levels. Oh, about 60 percent career development, praised and recognition. Somebody's been taking some seminars because you're actually doing a lot better in price and recognition for folks. Yeah, and hey, there's been a climate of appreciating our health care workers, whether they're seeing a their patient tax or their nurses or even advanced degree folks. There's really been a better appreciation of that. This is the big one, though, that has one of the highest dissatisfaction areas, and that's work environment and culture. And sitting up under that work environment and culture is also those things like work life balance, how do I feel when I come in? What's the atmosphere of the place that I work? So some folks could say, that just depends. You're in a good department. You're not in a good department. I really think, and you talk about leadership, Erin, all the time. Culture is set from leadership at the highest levels and it permeates down. It's not like voodoo economics, the rich get rich and then it trickles down. But it really is one of those things that if you have great culture at the top, it's going to eventually erode some of the folks that are blocking that, and it's going to permeate all the way down through the organization. If you don't have it here, you may have pockets, but it's not going to be widespread. And that is something that I'm not sure why we don't get to the why is this happening. But it is certainly true that work life, work environment and culture has some of the highest dissatisfaction levels, almost up to about 50 percent for that one staffing levels. It's always 1 of those. It's contentious. You got about 32 percent that are still dissatisfied or very dissatisfied amount of time with patients. Everybody wants more time with patients. The pressure's on. But if you think about it, that's directly related to the labor crisis we were talking about. So as we solve some of our retention issues and shore up our workforce, we're going to see something better. Ours, it's, it's also one that has nearly 50 percent in the Okay to dissatisfied, but the dissatisfied have gone down. So the hours are becoming a bit more manageable for folks. Pay, the dissatisfied folks have gone down. Is anybody ever satisfied with their pay? No. Okay, but at least we have nearly 80 percent that are saying, I'm okay, I'm satisfied. Or I'm very satisfied with pay now. And the way that we've gone as a society to transparency around pay, and even in some states legislated that we have to put the pay ranges out there, we're feeling a bit more equitable compensation, I think, overall. So that's really where we're hitting and we're trying to, we're understanding what the pain points that people have are that are driving them out. And you asked, how do we solve for this? one of the biggest solves we can have for this is for our management folks to really and anybody in leadership to just understand that these things are problems, even if they're just perceived problems, a perceived problem is a problem. You really have to address that head on with your folks because we're never going to be at a state where we just retain 100 percent of our workforce year over year. if we're going to continue to be bringing people into our workforce, if we don't solve these problems, and we don't address these issues and hear people and make them feel heard, then those things are just going to fester and get bigger. The more we solve them. And we're going to start itching away, inching away at the retention numbers and retain more folks and basically build a healthier, more balanced workforce for ourselves. That's going to be able to thrive in this environment.

Erin: 12:53

Yeah. Marlena, is there anything that you wanna add? Anything

Marlana: 12:57

I just, I see the same trends I think that we're all seeing right now. one of the things I hear the most, just when speaking, with the, the issues, and trying to bring in, the labor needs is just that there's this real focus right now on the work life balance. we've come out of a pandemic, Let's be honest, healthcare felt that substantially the most out of any of the professions, and, anywhere. so there's still feeling that pressure from that, I think just trying to sustain the new normal of where they, once words where we're coming into, I think it's going to be an important thing. But at the same time, it's a period of transition right now. we, I think for so many people, just, the burnout and the not being able to, Have that family quality time, and not being able to spend the amount of time they want with their children or their significant others. I think it's become a huge thing, which we've really got to just, I think is important to build up to people is just for the organizations that are looking for the talent is just to really. show them that they are supportive of that, that, obviously there's a really high need for those positions to be filled, but to have an organization that, you're going to go to work for. And at the end of the day, is there to support you and doesn't want you to be just, on the clock from this time to that time, but at the same time, giving you that time with your patients, giving you that time that you need to spend with your family. I think it's just going to be important moving forward that we start to make some of these changes and see some of these changes as Bart said, with the, 38, 000 people, coming into retirement in Alabama. I'm actually in the Tennessee market and the Mississippi market, and we see a similar trend there. But we do a lot of the, the millennials coming into it and, it's not nearly the number it was before. I know when I was recently out of high school, going into college, the number 1 field to go into was nursing and it sustained that way for as many years. but I think just with the, the new people that we have coming into this field into these jobs, they've really got to have as Bart was mentioning that passion because this is a calling this is, this is something that, that you're called to it's not something you go into and you just. work, because, that you need a job, this is, you've got to have something that is calling to you that makes you passionate about what you do at the end of the day, even when you're. up against so many barriers, not having, maybe as many staff, they are not getting the time with your family or not getting a time with your patients.

Erin: 15:22

I think that with those stats and that data, when you. And the idea that this is a calling, because it is, because sometimes it's. A lot of the times it's unappreciated work, a lot of the times it is appreciated, but sometimes it's not, leaders have to understand that if people get into nursing or caring for people, because they want to care for people and that it is a calling, there's an emotional component to that. That is not technical and that requires an empathetic. Leadership approach and the majority of the people says that they are in it because it's a calling and they want to be with the people and so we know that all the paperwork and the documentation and. management stuff that most of the nurses don't want to do, we're having to do that now. And how, it will be a creative problem solve to figure out how do we give people more of that time. And, when they don't, how do we ensure that we can listen to them in an empathetic way and try to create that time. Because, As a passionate leader, there is two sides to passion, right? you can be excited about, saving the world and then you can plummet to the other side when you are completely depleted of everything that you have. And how do we reenergize? that passion, and I think the more we can educate people on how to prevent burnout or kind of more about energy than it is anything else, putting your time and things that, that fuel you and being aware of all of that, I think really does help. The other point is pay is never enough. I was working with a company who had this really big pay increase shortly after the pandemic. And it took about 45 days for them to come back and say they wanted another raise really excited about this big increase. And I was excited to give it to them. And I had people fall out on the floor and so excited. And I'm like, yes. Yes, people are happy. And then 45 daylers, 45 days later, I need another raise. And I'm like, Oh boy, that's just not going to happen. So I do think that, it is a combination of a lot of that, but real data says, if I want to spend time with the patients, I'm here because it's a calling. Okay. How do we manage people who are here because of a calling? It's not the same way that you manage people in it, right. Or in someone else it's because we're really passionate about what we do. so

Bart: 18:20

I think you're right in calling it an empathetic management style. I love what you say there. I also think. I'm not a, management expert, more of a marketing expert, but empathetic marketing, maybe a term that we'll have to give you some credit on, half credit anyway, but empathetic marketing, you have to make sure that you're attracting the people that are fitting with the environment and the offerings that you have and what you stand for. hopefully your company, practice, provider, whatever you are, hospital practice, assisted living, home, whatever you are out there, you have to make sure that you stand for something. Because whether or not you realize it or not, intentionally, you have a brand. And if you think, a lot of people think, my brand is my logo, or my brand is, Our company name or it's our chain of, assisted living homes that are across the southeast or it's success or it's honesty or is this or that none of that's a brand. Those are things that are those things, a logo or whatever your brand is really the personification of your workplace as it's lived out every day in that place. It's. It's how many people are happy. It's how many people feel praised. It's how many people feel satisfied, with their work and what they're doing. And I think a brand's strength is pretty much defined by its weakest links. people who aren't living out the brand that is trying to be enacted, the workplace brand that's trying to be enacted and delivered. And I do think that the burnout most likely comes from folks who feel like they should be doing or accomplishing or having a sense of accomplishment, but something standing in the way. Of them feeling like they delivered the care that they, in, in business terms, the product that is the expectation. and then they feel like there's nothing I can do about it. And so if a brand, if a management team, before they ever start marketing their workplace, or put out another job ad, or anything like they do, the best time that I could suggest spending to solve, to start solving their hiring issues. Would be to take an honest assessment of some of the weakest links that they have, not from the standpoint of how can I get rid of them, but how did they become that and what's standing in their way or the optical obstacles in their way that we need to remove from their way so that they can live up to what they got into this profession for and what we as a company got into this profession for in the first place, which is to deliver quality care.

Erin: 21:30

It's true. Sounds so easy. So

Bart: 21:32

simple. Sounds like a lot of hard work, but yes, it's effective, right? Because yes, and your obstacle might be different from mine or Marlena's. And so I'm not saying that we can, all just go to the psychologist and take a bunch of tests and really understand it, but just making the attempt. At listening and understanding and trying to shore up some of these things, becoming a listening organization, I think, can help these folks and really build a workplace culture. That's something you would want to market and you would want to showcase.

Erin: 22:12

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I learned being in healthcare and senior living my entire career and then stepping out and forming this new identity or this new path becoming a podcast host and speaker and now working for a Tech company but becoming an entrepreneur All of a sudden my mindset became important as an entrepreneur And in healthcare, no one ever spoke about mindset. It's you have a calling you're here because this and that, but what you just said was, I should be feeling this, or I should be achieving this. That should is the barrier. And that's the story that we make up in our mind. It's this should. We're comparing something. And, Just when we talk about culture, this is just my own side note and my own understanding of what led me to the burnout. It is the should, because I feel like should in parentheses is shame. And if we're not careful, we get confused with that. And my mindset. The nurse's mindset, the nurse manager mindset inside of senior living is just as important as an entrepreneur's mindset. And yet, if you are an entrepreneur, you're constantly being told it's about your mindset so you can succeed. You have to keep going. You have to keep going. And that is my secret as to what I feel like the industry can do. to help nurses, because we are passionate people and passion is a double edged sword, and if the family's mad at me because I couldn't get to them in enough time, I should have gotten there in enough time and who's beating who up. Really? You know what I mean? Both of us are being beat up. I'm going to beat myself up and they're going to beat me up for that. so how do we give people the tools to realize I can only do what I can do. And they're going to be upset because they can. And it's the only way they feel like they can take care of their loved one. And I'm going to keep doing what I can to the best of my ability. You know what I mean? And keep going. So you're right. all of that. And then my little take is what I hope people. Come to see, we want to take care of people. I'm not a nurse, but I've worked around enough to feel like I'm grandfathered in to that. most nurses don't want to be managers and, we forced them to be managers. that's just, you gotta be at, you gotta be that shift leader inside senior living, so these are great insights, really, and then the hiring difficulties, that we see inside the state constantly, in, in your areas of that survey, what are the top areas that have the most impact? Do you know that do you know those stats like, what are the

Bart: 25:15

areas that are the hot the hardest to hire? Yes. Yes. And they're in our area specifically Huntsville. We have, we partner with Gartner, which you hear about Gartner all the time. It's like this. wonderful data company. They have their fingers on the pulse of so many industries. Recruitment is one of them, and they look at job boards, how many jobs are listed by company, how long are they up there, and they set really a hiring index from one easy to ten most difficult. In Alabama alone, two of our cities are at tens, our largest cities, Huntsville and Montgomery. Birmingham, they got it so easy, they're a nine. Okay, so it's still really terrible. Huntsville, Mobile. is sitting at a seven, which sounds like, oh, it's delight to hire in Huntsville today. That's still a difficult step, right? that's still really high in a typical labor market. if you even go outside of our state, you go, Marlena can talk about Jackson and Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga. are at eights of difficulty and Knoxville, in between the sizes of those two, is at a six. So people need to maybe target Knoxville to get some of those folks down. It might be a little easier. Atlanta is at a ten and that's hard for all of us because Atlanta is such a magnet being only a couple hours away from Birmingham and Montgomery and not too far from Mobile. And Huntsville either. So they're gonna, they're gonna be like a sponge that's sucking some people in. Marlena's got her pulse on, Memphis and Jackson.

Marlana: 27:01

Yeah, and ironically for both of those, those both actually markets Jackson and Memphis market are both at a 10. we just yeah, it's we just recently, did some, some survey reports and stuff, but it's those are 2 markets that are just really difficult to fill. And I think overall, those are 2 of the biggest markets that felt the, the pain of the pandemic. it was. It was woeful. just during that time that we just with the understaffing for the hospitals and stuff. I know, just from seeing the Memphis business journal, I think about 6 months ago, they were talking about people, with health care burnout and how many people ironically, I think, 22 percent of the health care population completely abandoned health care in any form and went to it and when they asked them. Why did you go to it? They said, because we don't want to have to go anywhere other than a cubicle. They literally just wanted to have to be at the cubicle because they just. Had felt the pressure and the strain of it so much. but, yeah, those are 2 very difficult markets to. To fill positions right now, and and it's not just, any position, you're talking about anything from our ends all the way to physical therapy assistance. to doctors, it's just, it's a broad category for both of those. And I think really just trying to move forward. What Bart was speaking about what you were speaking about is just really showing that empathetic side of an organization, go to an organization's Web page and you can see, obviously, the core values that are listed at the top and you can read. But until you actually see that testimonial, or that. Blog post from a nurse from someone who works in it, someone who works in administration and then you really feel that love and compassion that the organization has. actions speak louder than words. They can put anything they want to on there. But when you really have the ability to show the people that are working there, and what their satisfaction is, I think that's going to be crucial. Just coming up with this job crisis as we have is the people who are. Bart was saying in the survey, the ones that are satisfied, just getting those people to come out and say, I am satisfied my position. I'm satisfied because of the work life balance or because of the fact that, management is empathetic to me that I'm able to spend time with my patients. I think it's really just going to have to be differentiating yourself. Through what your core values are in a different way. You're going to really have to get those people who are satisfied with the positions they're in to come forward and say, this is why I'm here. This is why I do what I do every day. It's not the pay, and maybe I don't get to, take my son to soccer practice every day. Like I would like to, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'm making a difference and that's why I'm here.

Erin: 29:45

Yeah, absolutely. It's not always about the pay. It's about. that difference that we make so as a marketing group and in health care. Do you have? Examples of who does this very well that you can share and I

Bart: 30:02

know we're talking about assisted living but we'd like to talk about a couple of hospitals because they're so distinct and Even some might say competitors.

Erin: 30:12

Dive in.

Bart: 30:13

We have a couple of really great clients. One is St. Vincent's in Birmingham and the other, maybe not a mile and a half away. You could walk from one to the other is Children's Hospital. if you just looked at the job boards, you're probably looking at some very similar positions. Similar qualifications, not a lot of differentiation in pay and benefits. Or what the 401k contribution might be. but really these folks had to really define themselves in a different way to stand out from one another. And it's not that they were necessarily worried about standing, this being a zero sum game, but it's almost less than a zero sum game because we don't have enough people. It's a, there's not enough. Folks out there to fill every position that's available and Marlena. You just said it. It's about pulling people into The marketplace you may be gainfully employed. listen today That's the only people that are out there are people who are gainfully employed Or maybe they just happen to relocate with a partner, but and they're temporarily Unemployed, but most people are at work. So st. Vincent's Really has wanted to say here's who we are, not what we pay, not our benefits, not pick your hours, not a signing bonus. Here's who we are. They talk about that in the job ads. We call that low funnel. You're already interested. But if you're sitting over in some practice and you've been there for 20 years, what's going to make you want to leave? St. Vincent said we are a place where we walk our faith and we live it through our practice. And for folks who really want that marriage of work and faith and calling that has a spiritual element to it, And that's really what you're looking for in an environment you're looking for. You come here, that's what we got. And that's who we are. It's our DNA. And their ads didn't have anything about specific jobs. They just talked about culture. And the creatives spoke it. The folks who were interviewed spoke it. You had clinicians, you had RNs, you had advanced degree folks, you had CNAs, you had dieticians. Everybody was talking what that meant to them and how it helped them live their lives. And they were very satisfied with that because it allowed them to have a new dynamic to their workplace that isn't always welcome at every workplace. Children's, they had a completely different focus, same type of approach, but it was let our people tell our story. You had folks that loved working with kids. That we're in, and they felt called to not necessarily run, Raymond James, it system regions, banks, it system. They wanted to run children's it system because the environment in which they live and worked and breed was mission oriented. And was doing something and bringing health care to folks that maybe couldn't access it in any other way, and it really got them up in the morning and same thing with maybe a dietitian, same thing with a cancer nurse, who, for some of us, we couldn't imagine what their daily life would be like. And loss and emotional healing would be just to get through their day for them. They were charged by it. It was just they love those kids and they wanted to do everything they can to be in that environment. You had some folks that were dressing up as clowns and bringing balloons to take blood because it distracted the kids and help them get through something that was really hard. But the difference in those two cultures is starkly different. One is not right, one is not wrong, but it is right for some and wrong for others. And so what they found was, by leading first with this who we are, it was authentic, didn't mean they didn't have problems, didn't mean they didn't live it out, they always live it out 100 percent of the time, nobody ever does, nobody's perfect, but it gave folks the chance to say, I like that, I see myself there, And by the way, it made an emotional, heartfelt connection to them that a generic black and white job listing on some job board somewhere could never, ever do. It made that children's logo come alive with the stories behind what made children's stories. Children's and the same thing with ST Vincent's for their folks. And look, this there are personalities to workplaces and assisted living could be just as impactful, just as inspiring to the right people who want to work there. You just got to tell your story and you can't gloss it over and you can't say it's something that it's not. You need to tell what it is and why there are people that are passionate to be there.

Erin: 35:38

Yeah. It makes me like, I have learned recently, like to me, rejection is a filter. It's not a thing that's assigned to your worth. When you assume that you can be for everyone, you lose what makes you unique. And what you're talking about with those two hospitals is people are self selecting. And when people self select. You get better quality people. And I think we, from a marketing standpoint in senior living or any business, really from a marketing standpoint, from a hiring standpoint, if we don't tell our story, then we're going to get somebody in the culinary department that is not okay with serving the same customer three times a day. Cause that's totally different from a waffle house cook. Okay. Who has the same menu to prepare for every day and all that other kind of stuff. So you're right. When you tell that story about who you want, the transit, the transformations that you offer your residents, you can actually market to people who can appreciate what you have to offer versus trying to spread yourself so thin that you're trying to be everything for everyone, which is not possible, just saying. So that's an excellent case study. Excellent.

Bart: 37:02

Excellent.

Erin: 37:04

I had a lot of time. I spent a lot of time at children's hospital from 2012 to 2014. And I have to tell you, it was an amazing place. and how they support their families there, and you can really learn a lot when you work, when you have that filter as a parent of a child who has a lot of procedures and things, and then taking that and how the pediatric world supports people, and then taking that into the senior living world. It is, we should parallel that, it's different because I'm not going to call a daughter, like I'm called mom, right? I'm going to say daughter, would you come with me? But that level of understanding and care and trying to build the connection and making people feel safe, there's just an intentionality to it. That's, really appreciated. in that vulnerable time, and you can, we can certainly learn a lot from that from pediatrics to geriatrics. there's a lot there's a lot to that. anything else Marlena that you want to add?

Marlana: 38:15

Yeah, I just, just touching on what Bart said, I was actually, meeting with a, with an assisted living facility a couple weeks ago and had an opportunity to actually sit down and have a conversation with the administrator. Okay. And she said something to me that really resonated with me so much. I think just because I am out there meeting with people in the health care community so much. She said health care is not a 1 size fits all. She said, it depends on, what, what is, what is your where you're passionate about, whether it be assisted living, whether it be pediatrics, whether it be. just, broader avenues and stuff. I think it's just really, getting to the heart point of where you want to be in the health care field, because, nobody goes on a job board and just randomly searches for a health care job that they're looking for, to be in our end position and stuff. They want to they're searching for an organization. That's going to be a good fit for them. what Bart was saying, with children's or Saint Vincent's. I think there again, it's just so important to get that message across about your organization, just to really let those people know that, hey, this is going to be a good fit for you because the honest, assisted living is not for everybody. Like you said, it's definitely not. a position that, all nurses, would be, as comfortable in or as passionate about. And for some, that is their calling. And I think it's just trying to find that avenue of where you need to be at. And I think a lot of that just starts with, what children's has done and, what St Vince has done is just let your message be heard. Yeah, let's, let the flock come to you at that point, let the people come.

Erin: 39:44

The storytelling. Yeah, it's, yes, I agree with that 100%, we teach people how to tell their story, to give them permission to tell their story, and the right way, not the wrong way. That's

40:00

right.

Bart: 40:02

something people also think is because of the way that social media originated, it was very grassroots. It was very organic. When it first started, people don't realize this, but when it was first started, the thumb wasn't on the scale of what showed up in your feed. we hear about algorithms. You might have seen a lot of talk when Zuckerberg's in front of Congress or something about the algorithms. those are real things. And back in the sort of heyday of social media, the primordial ooze that birthed it, if you will, it came out of socialization, but very quickly it grew into, this has to become a business. Meaning we got to make some money, meaning we got to sell some advertising because that's what we got and we're selling you. So very quickly, a couple of years into that, it went from you're putting out good content, it's resonating, it's going to get seen by more people to if you don't either pay to be seen or put out enough stuff that is almost Off the scale, inciting to people, then the algorithms are not going to push your message up. And so for companies who are thinking about this sort of strategy of. Layering on top of your job board stuff, because you almost have to do that as a utility. Think of that as. I gotta pay the power bill. I gotta do a job listing. Otherwise, I won't be able to, Have a place where people can find out what's out here, but to get that job listing scene You can't just have a facebook page and start making posts or a linkedin page and start making posts You have to actually have a really good Paid strategy to be able to target people to write stuff really well. You have to have some production value. It doesn't have to be Hollywood, but it needs to be really good stuff so that people will see the good work that you're putting out and it not be really just artificially, I don't want you to say suppressed. But it just has to elevate and, they're running a business. They're not putting out a free service. So you have to pay to play in some of these spaces. And that may be something that, especially the HR department. The hiring folks have to wrap their head around is it's no longer just hiring. It is marketing the workplace. And that is something that's a big paradigm shift from say 2012 to 2014 to 2023.

Erin: 42:48

Yeah, I, we can end on this story, but I had a, I had an associate who we allowed her to go into another department and she was very creative and she was, vacuuming all the floors with the big vacuum cleaner and she made a nice, Video edited high production value. And it was so funny, but it was so inappropriate. And we had to tell her to take it off.

Bart: 43:17

She

Erin: 43:22

was walking around, she was showing, it was, I think, cause this was years ago, I think it could fly now. but it was the shock that somebody would do that, And in some ways today, I think it would go viral and it would be, but. Five years ago, it was too much. it was just too much.

Bart: 43:47

Sure.

Erin: 43:47

it's about giving your team a little variety, create a, do a, create a video and let's see who can win You know what I mean? I love it. yeah,

Marlana: 43:56

appreciate the creativity, maybe not on all, all the levels, so Yeah.

Bart: 44:01

Crisp guardrails. Yeah. Yes.

Erin: 44:03

it was so funny. I just thought, my God. What else, like it was just really funny.

Bart: 44:09

That's awesome.

Erin: 44:10

Is there anything else? This has been an excellent episode. Thank you so much for all this data. I feel Knowledge is power, but also ideas, ideas to use coming from a vice president of marketing of a media group. It's

Bart: 44:23

nice. I love recruiting. I love recruitment marketing because I think that folks who are in human resources. Are the front line for meeting needs for the businesses that they represent across the economy. But when it comes to health care, they're having to sift through and find people who are called to the work. But at the same time, have a high level of credentialed expertise, right? So it's even more critical, define the right people. But what they haven't encountered yet and what they really need help with is they weren't trained in marketing, per se, most folks are in HR haven't been trained in marketing, and, it's going to be a paradigm shift for them, but there are partners out there that can help. And I think they don't need to be afraid to say to the, even their marketing departments, we're not going to be able to do business with more patients if we can't get the hiring stuff done. So we're going to need some help here with the marketing dollars, with the marketing expertise. help us out. we're here to help, but it has to be a buy in from everybody to really understand that hiring can be solved. With an attack from all angles, it's not 1 thing. There's no silver bullet. It's everything you said about leadership. It's marketing, it's H. R. it's everybody coming to the table and saying, let's roll up our sleeves. Let's get this done. Let's be a win for our business, but most importantly, let's be a win for our patients.

Erin: 46:07

Yeah, absolutely. And recruiting companies talk to a lot of people and there are insights that Marlena has that not many people have because she is sitting down talking to all those different executive directors.

Marlana: 46:23

Absolutely. And I think, really one of the main questions, which was something that, it was a little hesitant to ask before, but I do now is. what is this doing to you personally, not getting these, not getting these, candidates in the door to fill these positions. Let's talk about what it's going to organization, but let's talk about what it's doing to you personally as well. I think really knowing for them that they're not out there in this alone. even if they do. have the ability to manage the Facebook account for, for the hospital or for the organization and stuff like that. That's fine. But, you combine that with so many other. Hats that HR wears, and I know for a fact, HR is 1 of these that wears a lot of hats. Just having somebody be able to come in, I think, and just alleviate some of that pressure off of them and bring in some, outside the box strategies that maybe they previously haven't thought about before. No, that's what we're really here to help with is just, we, I care passionately, not only about my job, but I care passionately about making sure that. health care crisis for the markets represent is, is coming to, some sort of a solution because I want to see those people get in the door and I want to be able to help those organizations. And I think, what Bart was saying, it's really just a joint effort between everybody involved. whether it be, you have a marketing department in house, maybe. Bringing in somebody from outside who can, can bring some avenues that you haven't previously thought about before. It's just just, thinking just every possible aspect that you can to get the people in the door that you need.

Erin: 47:57

Absolutely. It's very valuable service. very valuable service. Thank you all for being here today and bringing us such good information. And Bart, I will see you on the 18th or the 19th.

Bart: 48:10

Looking forward to

48:11

it.

Erin: 48:12

Absolutely. And Marlena to the next fall annual Alabama conference or semi conference.

Marlana: 48:18

I look forward to seeing you then.

Erin: 48:19

all right. And to all my listeners, thank you for spending time with us and as always aspire for more for you.