Aspire for More with Erin
Aspire for More with Erin
Biggest Sales Challenges: A Sales Director and an Executive Director Conversation
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Hi, and welcome back to a new episode of the aspire for more with Aaron podcast where I am honored and excited to have Mrs. Anna Ward Gunev with us. She is a Former sales and marketing director, but more importantly, a boy, mom of two small boys, a digital creator, and a woman who clearly lives life on the sunny side. So welcome, Anna. Thank you for being here today.
Anna:Hi, Aaron. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so honored. I've admired you on LinkedIn for quite a while. I think you're one of the wisest, smartest people on there. So I always enjoy your posts and I'm excited to chat today.
Erin:Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I, I was drawn to you for the same reasons. People don't understand what it takes to be vulnerable on a post for an industry to read or for a person to read or for a past coworkers to read or whoever. And I saw what you were doing and I received it. And I said, look at her. And I really started watching what you were doing, and I saw me and I saw a lot of the same struggles. I saw Mean Girl Mondays, which I thought was phenomenal, right? we've all had mean girls in our life. And, senior living is certainly, Not void of mean girls and boys. I just was like, look at her. No! And she was still working inside of a community at the time. can you please tell me where that started? Why you started that? And then add in the glitter to it, which to me is just so authentic. And I love it. tell me where all of that started.
Anna:like most of us, I have been dealing with mean girls since preschool, all through school. And then fast forward to being 43 years old. And it just all was like coming at me from every direction. At the same time, it felt like church and I'm a real mom at school. And then there's all the mom wars. But I haven't even gotten into yet. So that's another subject, but, work, the residents, we're talking about 95 year old mean girls sometimes. And it's just, it's something that I wanted to share. Cause I thought, I feel like I'm the only one. I feel like it's just me, but hopefully it's not. And hopefully someone else can relate. And I feel like. When we share our struggles and challenges with each other, then it's like, Oh, me too. Same. Let's talk about this. Let's find solutions and let's heal versus when we keep it inside, nobody knows. And then you're just acting like everything's great and you're really hurting inside.
Erin:Yeah. It eats you up. It really, when you don't talk about things, that are really affecting you, it, it churns inside and things turn into a very unhealthy storyline inside of our head and we get angry and we react in certain ways that maybe we didn't mean to.
Anna:yeah. And it releases a lot of power, right? This negativity that I was experiencing from every direction was like, I do not like this feeling because I really strive to just be positive and optimistic and glittery, but all of this negativity, it was happening from all sides. And I'm like. I'm going to share this and release the power that it has on me and it really helped. And I think it helped from the response. A lot of other people, which ultimately is like, the most amazing goal.
Erin:Yeah, it's true. I didn't I've always been vulnerable inside of my community when talking to family members and associates. That was like my place to be vulnerable, and it was very successful because I did that, and I, it allowed me Peace and freedom. I can realize now that what I didn't talk about caused a lot of negativity and angst, and when I walked out of the community and I didn't have that safe space to be vulnerable with family members who were coming in and looking and talking about. hard things that I was facing as a parent, it was different scenarios, but it was the same. I didn't have that outlet anymore. And I took to LinkedIn and honestly grew into finding that same outlet for me, because I was part of a coaching program where I found other women doing that and how much it served me in ways that I did was not aware of. And all of a sudden I became aware of the power of vulnerability and sharing and just like you, I'm like, why does senior living not have a space for this? And, in some ways it's turning into LinkedIn is being the place for that, right?
Anna:It is. Yeah, I've shared quite a bit of frustrations and challenges and scenarios. And it's really helped on LinkedIn because again, it's like. Nope, I'm not the only one and you're not the only one. And let's talk about this and share. And it's like a professional support group, which is amazing.
Erin:Yeah, it's, it is so needed and, hopefully conversations like this will help. I think the other key thing about being vulnerable is you have to realize you have to be strategic with it because. Oversharing is not vulnerability. I have realized in the past when I have overshared on people that it was an anxiety attack and it was harsh and it wasn't vulnerable, it was. an avalanche of anxiety. I'm not going to have to breathe into a bag, but I'm going to have to get it all out, right? And whoever's standing in front of me at the time that I deem as being able to accept it is going to get it,
Anna:I am positive. I've definitely been there, so I can relate. Probably way too many times, but as we're going to talk about, it's progress, not perfection. Yes.
Erin:Yes. I, as we have met and talked and email back and forth and spoke on the phone, I have, we have clung to the same phrases. It's funny how, when you create your dialogue for your life, your story in the community. the transitions in the community, the transformations that you offer, like when you create your dialogue, your voice, your story, and you use that over and over, you attract people and some of the stuff that you post, I am like, Oh, yes. Oh, yes. like progress, not perfection, right? one day at a time, but actually one minute or one hour at a time. Yeah, 24 hours
Anna:is too much of a chunk a lot of the times.
Erin:Yes, say that right now. No, say that all again. That's great. That is great. People need to hear this perspective. Okay, one day at a time
Anna:or 1 hour or 1 minute. And sometimes it's 1 2nd, sometimes we just put 1 foot in front of the next. Until we get there. One step, one minute, one day at a time. However you need to break it down for that day.
Erin:Yes. On those really overwhelming days inside senior living, which are typically around the full moon cycle, I have found. but on those really fast paced days where you may have two to three move ins in a month, and then you have people moving out, or you have five tours that want to come in, and you just have to breathe through it. You just have to say, I can only do one thing at a time and I just need to survive today. I know I don't need to worry about tomorrow because today I have to survive. Yes,
Anna:and another good one that I just thought of when you said that is the next indicated step. So there's three move ins and there's five tours and you have to get all the paperwork and you also have 50 calls in your database that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. And you haven't had lunch or hydrated, what's the next indicated step? Grab some water because we are nothing if we're just going to pass out from dehydration, grab some water and then what is The most critical important next step of that day, and then just take it from there after that indicated step. What's the next indicated step and then a few minutes have passed. And now you're like, 1 more minute at a time. And 1 more next indicated step. Because when you're looking at. The hundred things that you have to do in an eight hour time period talk about overwhelming. So when you break it down into little chunks and little steps and little tasks, You find at the end of the day that you've done a lot better. Most of it.
Erin:And it's not overwhelming because it's really 1 step at a time. did you find it hard to drink water too? Did you find it hard to hydrate inside of it? Oh, my gosh.
Anna:Oh, my gosh. The hardest I have done the apps, the timers, the alarms, the. Post it notes, the 10 different bottles of water everywhere. I've done it all. And this Starbucks tumbler that looks like a disco ball is what I have found after 20 different things of trying that works for me. And now I just take little sips all day long, instead of trying to drink a hundred ounces and 10 minutes.
Erin:I feel seen. And maybe there are more intentional. Leaders, sales directors out there that can drink throughout the day, but I'm sorry, there were a lot of days that I just didn't drink at all after 9 a. m. when the day was rolling. I didn't drink until 5 p. m. the afternoon.
Anna:Yeah, and that is self care, which is another topic that we can also talk about, right? Because we're like constantly doing for others and our clients and our residents and our colleagues and our reps and our vendors. And it's Oh, but I need to eat and drink water right now as well.
Erin:Yeah, you got to be intentional with that. That's so funny. Hopefully there are other. I
Anna:know we're not the only ones because there's a whole water industry and water container tumbler bottle industry as well. So we are not alone.
Erin:That's true. That's true. you and I have spoke about. Empathy inside of communities inside selling inside leadership. when we talk about our stats of how we grew communities from a certain occupancy percentage to another occupancy percentage, what do we think that secret sauce is? Is, and it's empathy. I think that's what you said. It was, it's just, I want to help people. I don't necessarily want to sell people. So talk us through that perspective from a sales director.
Anna:my number one goal was to never come across as salesy. No, I certainly never wanted to be the used car salesman type, but I also didn't want to be The hard core closer salesperson. I know that works for a lot of people and that's great. That's just not my MO and that's not my personality. Mine MO is coming from a place of empathy, which is putting yourself in someone else's shoes. Like I really. and I'm actually experienced with them as they were talking about these really tough stories. I've, I feel like I've heard it all and then, the next tour comes in and then it's another different. Horrific, heartbreaking story. And then you haven't heard it all. And so I really just try to come from a place of putting myself in their shoes. We have done this. senior living a million times. We, we've done the move ins. We've gotten the paperwork. We know how it goes, but when the tour is coming in, that is most likely their first time doing this. And it's scary and it's foreign and unknown. And, what is this place? And then there's all these. Myths and misconceptions and pre judgments of what senior living is and all these emotions of guilt and stress and fear. And am I doing the right thing? And I promised my loved one that they would always stay home, but that's just not possible. And so that is where empathy comes in, and I never realized that was. at all a unique skill or anything special. I truly thought everyone has empathy, but after talking to folks, There's folks who just don't have the skill of empathy. I'm not saying they're not caring. They are, they're great people, but they just struggle with getting to a place of empathy and understanding and putting themselves in the other person's shoes. And so then I realized, wow, this is actually a skill.
Erin:Yeah. I think the sales director and the executive director that can show. the biggest empathetic tour conversation and give people the next steps, the next indicated step, wins the sale. Yeah. It's ultimately being a resource and not a sales pitch and educating people. I may not be an expert compared to. Somebody, older than me or in the industry longer than me, but I am the expert in front of this person who is going through trauma, who is guilt ridden, who doesn't know how to take care of their loved one because they have no understanding of what dementia is. And I take them and I educate them in the moment. And I tell them you're doing the best that you can do. That's all that's required. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah. Just because my best is a little bit better because I have the experience doesn't mean that your best is not your best. So let's just educate you and make it better. And now, and if we can give people the next steps, show them that they're not alone. Talk about the 25 other people that have come in over the last 4 weeks saying the same thing. Doing the same things, feeling the same way, this is normal, like you have just calmed somebody down from the rafters and so they can make an educated decision.
Anna:Yeah. I'll never forget a tour I had a year ago and I had been doing this for 12 years up until that point. And she said, I have been to five different communities and they all act like This is just easy peasy. Like we're just going to move your mom in. Like we've done this and you're the first person who has stopped. And acknowledged that, yeah, like I have done this a lot, but this is your first time doing this. And I know that it's overwhelming and hard and scary and we're here every step of the way. And that really stuck with me. It was like, wow. thank goodness. Thank goodness I came across that way. But I, even I didn't realize to what extent these families Are in so much overwhelm and they just need to be heard and seen.
Erin:Yeah,
Anna:and that's all the world.
Erin:Yeah, we all need that. And even, and you've alluded to this and I've alluded to this in our posts on LinkedIn, but. Overwhelm and just needed to be seen and needed to be heard. That's a pretty much human basic need when you're swimming in high demand and low clarity, which is overwhelm or too many options and not really understanding where the priorities are. And, what we feel like inside of a community when we're overwhelmed and when we're anxious and when we can't see. The forest through the trees is we need to have the safe place to maybe not have an anxiety attack on people, but to say, I need a minute something. This is I am not good. I'm not good, like I am feeling like I am doing everything I can and it is not enough. Can we just take a minute and actually talk about what I'm doing so people can see the path that we're going to, It's just that constant feeling of I work in an industry that's 24 hours, seven days a week, 365 days a year. I'm expected to drop everything to solve problems, do tours, all that. Where is the appreciation, where is my being seen and heard,
Anna:And I think there's a lot of burnout and senior living, in every department, but certainly sales directors, because that's where I can speak from. And I think a lot of the burnout comes from, we don't say all of those things. So you don't say, I need a minute. I just need to breathe or meditate or pray or drink water for 5 minutes. Yes. Or, talk to our fellow colleagues in the industry because I think it's. that very popular hashtag right now, if wow, that resonates with me and senior living because when I tell non senior living friends about stressful situations that occur in senior living, On a daily basis,
Erin:they
Anna:look at me like I have three heads like they just don't know if you haven't experienced it. You just don't know if, and even just to talk about it with a fellow colleague make could make all the difference in the world. And for me, personally, I wish I had done that more. It would have really helped.
Erin:Yeah, I think it would. I think it, I know it does, and you know it does. There's, when you can have a safe space to go to a group with like minded people and talk about struggles in a safe space, it changes. It's everything. And people look down on that. People say, Oh, I don't need group coaching or I don't need to go to that meeting or, Oh, I don't need to go to church, those types of things, but there's power in a corporate group setting where you watch people free themselves of negativity. And then you have other people say, Me too. And this is what I've done or just say, I hear you. Thank you for sharing the term. Thank you for sharing. Always had such a negative connotation to me. Like I would roll my eyes literally, like in my moments of deep negative thoughts, thinking that I'm never going to climb out of this. It doesn't matter. doesn't matter what I do and all that kind of stuff. And people are like, thank you for sharing. I would want to be like. That's the front door. You know what I mean? just, and now I really value the phrase, I understand what the phrase means now. And it's huge. It is. When you tell somebody, thank you for sharing. It's you don't say shut up. Instead, it's I see you.
Anna:Yeah. Yeah, it's huge. and so many people don't share. I don't know if they just don't feel comfortable. They don't want to be vulnerable. They're scared that they're going to look weak or out of control. I don't know. I'm not a therapist, but when I ask my senior living friends, like, How's the community going? How's it going? How's your job? Whatever the question. great. Everything's awesome. It's perfect. I'm like, yeah, that maybe in that moment, but there's more to that answer. There's more to that story. and I really appreciate being real and raw and vulnerable and honest, I like to keep it real because I know that is the most powerful and the most stress and anxiety reducing.
Erin:Yeah, it is. I never, I've always been, honest to a fault, but I didn't understand the power of that. I didn't understand why people didn't like that. And. Now I'm like, now I understand the strategy of it. Maybe I have to be, I don't want to overshare, I've always been an open book. I'm not gonna lie about anything. I'm going to tell you the truth. But, but there is, layers to vulnerability. People can only handle so much. I want to go to the root cause analysis every time. Why are you feeling that way? Let's go, let's dive deep. I'm like going into the deep end. And people need to start off in the shallow end sometime. And I don't understand that. And so sometimes I have to tone it down. A bit. Yeah. People would say to me, you just can't have a simple conversation. Can you? Yes, I can. It's just the definition of simple is different for everybody. Yep.
Anna:I see you. I'm
Erin:right
Anna:there
Erin:with
Anna:you. I'm like, let's just deep dive. I know. put on your scuba gear.
Erin:But my entire life, adult life, for the most part, I have been surrounded by really tough conversations, life and death situations, since I was 19 years old. And I haven't known a simple life. I have not known it. my grandmother, who was a big part of my life, grew up thinking that she was going to die because she was a very sickly kid in the twenties. And so she prepared me from the time that I remember that she could die at any minute. And she lived until she was 96. Wow. You know what I mean? So my entire life, I've been talking about death as an eight and 9-year-old kid waiting for her to die, Yeah. and then when she did pass away, I was like, you were right. I'm 36, 37 years old. But, anyways, I digress into stories, but it's just funny how when you find your people, you find your people and, when. You understand that when you have an understanding about who you are, you can be strategic with it, and you know when to rein it in and when to let it out,
Anna:I'm still working on that. I need you. I need you to coach me.
Erin:like I've said, I've had several anxiety attacks on people. I've learned the hard way, but we have come up with what we believe to be, I think, I believe, a pathway to success inside senior living, the 12 steps of maybe avoiding burnout. recovering from burnout, recognizing burnout. what would you add to that? Yeah, all of the above. so I want you through our shared experiences of burnout, of mistakes and choices and All of the above. I feel like we are on to something.
Microphone Array (Intelr Smart Sound Technology for Digital Microphones) & HP True Vision 5MP Camera:I cannot wait to share the second half of this podcast episode with you next week. This conversation is a long conversation and it's too long to put into one podcast. And so we wanted. To really give it our full attention. So thank you for listening to this episode. Stay tuned for next week, because I think actually I know it will bring a lot of value to you. And there's always for my listeners. Aspire for more. For you.