Aspire for More with Erin
Aspire for More with Erin
The Best Sales Secret: Drop the Outcome and More with Nicole Belanger
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In this episode of Aspire for More with Erin, Erin's first international guest, Nicole Belanger, founder of Leaderboard Sales, joins to share her insights on relationship-based selling. Nicole explains the concept of 'dropping the outcome,' which focuses on improving sales by prioritizing the customer experience over direct sales metrics. The discussion delves into strategies for managing expectations, the importance of consistency in sales behaviors, the impact of leadership on sales teams, and how breaking down goals into daily tasks can lead to success.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:02 The Power of Dropping the Outcome
01:32 Relationship-Based Selling in Senior Living
03:14 Metrics and KPIs: Balancing Numbers and Relationships
05:26 The Importance of Practice and Feedback
07:53 Managing Expectations and Adding Value
10:56 Leadership and Growth Orientation
16:02 Breaking Down Lofty Goals
31:05 The Role of Education in Sales
36:52 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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It is time for another episode of the Aspire for More with Erin podcast, where I'm proud to say I have my first international guest, our Canadian resident. Our kissing cousin up North, my guest today is Nicole Belanger. Doesn't that just sound so amazing. She's the founder of leaderboard sales, where her mission is to equip sales leaders and teams with the essential leadership skills necessary to enhance the sales team performance. Sounds great.
Nicole:Hi, Nicole. Hey, Erin, it's awesome to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, you're
erin:welcome. I think, I know that we have very much a lot of synergy from a sales perspective to an operations perspective. and I'm excited to dive into it because your mission and your catchphrases made my soul jump. And here is what you said to me. When you drop the outcome, things can happen for you. And I was like, drop the outcome. Yes. Cause like I say, be a resource and not a sales pitch and you say drop the outcome. And when you're a resource and not a sales pitch, you do drop the outcome. So take me to the place where you figure that out. Let's talk about that phrase because it's really exciting.
Nicole:Okay, let's do it. before I was, the founder of leaderboard sales, I've been in senior living industry for about a decade. And, I discovered relationship based selling just like, every other sales leader within a community. And, what I started to realize is when I treated my prospects, like family, like friends. And when I started to drop the outcome, when I started to really focus on honing in on the customer experience and the customer journey, that's when my closing ratio started to go through the roof. And, and I built my career in senior living and senior housing and was able to come through the ranks and eventually go from individual contributor at the site level to a corporate director of sales here in Canada. I feel really passionate about dropping the outcome because I've seen it work firsthand and have trained on this specific topic many times. Thank you.
erin:Yeah. Did you see from your corporate director level, did you see the change? Because when I was a sales director inside the community, numbers are intimidating. And especially for some sales directors, because you have your stereotypical, like I'm so full of energy and I want to solve the world's problems and I want to meet all the numbers and then you have the other ones where the numbers just hold them back a little bit, right? So did you see where people like got behind you and worked with dropping the outcome and not worried about their metrics so much and just focused on, like you said, the customer's journey?
Nicole:I think metrics and KPIs go hand in hand with how you treat your prospects. what's challenging is that sometimes people would hear, Oh, just drop the outcome and you'll get the, you get the people coming through the door. But your behavior within the community is what drives your outcomes on the metrics. So one of the key components of looking at how your strategy is working is your tour to move in ratio. And that's the biggest component when you're looking at, okay, does my behavior, what I'm doing with my prospects, is that translating into sales? If you, many people will say, if that tour to move in conversion ratio isn't where we want it to be, then we've got a closing issue. But what I say is that we have potentially a salesperson who is potentially lacking the ability to connect with our prospect on a deeper level, on a more granular level. And there are some strategies you can implement to get there, and it takes practice.
erin:Man, that was good. That was good. That was good. Because yes, KPIs and metrics are important. And that biggest one is, the move in one, right? When are we getting from initial inquiry to move in tour to move in all those are important numbers and they do tell a story and transactional selling only gets you so far, especially when you're caring for. Talking to people in some of the most challenging times of their life. And so we have to teach our sales people how to connect, connect is the key there. Not just. I have another tour coming. We need to make this quick, or I have to get my phone calls. all these things, it is relationship based selling, which is very important. So you say that so actually and passionately and yeah. How do you teach people to connect? Like when you saw those numbers as the corporate director, like what were, Give me a strategy that you. Implemented. That you've solved. Ugh.
Nicole:I think my former team would say, Oh my gosh, this was so hard, but it's really practicing in the room where you can make mistakes. Sure. Practice in front of your customers, practice in front of your prospects. The best way to practice is with someone who's going to give you really honest feedback. And if you feel comfortable with a corporate director of sales or a regional director of sales, or maybe it's your executive director in the community, go for it. One of the things I realized during a practice session one time is that I had a sales representative, practicing with another sales rep. And she always wanted to interject at every moment she could, at every statement. prospect was bringing her. And after the role play had finalized, I said, okay, so let's digest this and let's look at what happened. what do you think you did well? What do you think you could improve upon next time? Can I share my feedback? And what I shared was, I noticed that your active listening wasn't really engaged, you were able to engage well with the customer, but I noticed that you're processing your response before the customer or the potential customer has finished bringing something forward to you. And so role play, and I like to call it practice, I don't really like to call it role play, but practicing out scenarios can really be helpful. What that sales rep didn't realize is that she didn't realize she was doing it. She had no clue. And so sometimes when you can deliver that very organic feedback in a very supportive manner, that's gold to a representative who wants to build their business and get to the next level.
erin:Yeah. Practice. makes progress. I tell my daughter that all the time. It's not necessarily like perfection. That's not what we're shot. we're shooting for. We want good and we want success. Perfection is, whatever it is, it's an infinity chase. So it's not necessarily what we're aiming for, but practice builds confidence. Preparation builds confidence, right? And then belief. builds that confidence and I like, and I like drop, the outcome is almost preparing for no, like planning for no, you're going to be a resource and not a sales pitch and you're going to guide the resident, the, your prospect through the journey. And I think this kind of goes into expectations management a little bit, right? Like just expect no, if you expect no, then it's okay. you're not going to be upset about anything you're going in there. You want to give them your best. You want to deliver on what you're practicing. You want to help them. And when you expect to just do your best and maybe no And then you're not like disappointed. You're like, okay, what can I learn from this? Or, like you said, what can I do better? Yeah. Especially in the beginning when you're practicing,
Nicole:Yeah. And it's always about asking yourself, okay, how would I treat this individual? If they were never going to buy a single thing from me and I was never going to get some type of incentive, whether that's a commission or a bonus, whatever, however, you're incentivized, how would I treat this individual? If there was just nothing coming back to me, and we call this value without expectations, how do you add value to the prospect's life without expecting it, without expecting anything in return?
erin:That is a very powerful concept, just so you know, in life. I attribute expectations management a lot to happiness in life, I think in my career, I had a lot of expectations that were never met, which meant that I had a lot of resentments. That I didn't realize were like festering inside of me, creating negative energy. And if you're not careful, it can control your life, right? if you're in the sales slump, there's all these expectations and that's hindering your ability to connect, right? Because you didn't have a good month, a month before, and now you have to have a good month this month. So it becomes a force. Of nature instead of a connection of nature. And what I realized about my own battle of expectations and resentments was I didn't communicate a lot of them. Anyways, I just expected people to see something and do something. And if we're not careful, we can, that can happen in our sales. efforts as well, and it can also happen with our prospects to us if we're not listening. If we're not active listening and we're not writing, taking the notes and acting and asking what success looks like to them. expectations management is huge.
Nicole:Yeah. And if you're going to Sustainably work in this environment where let's be honest, there are pressures just like any other industry to perform. The best thing you can do for your mental wellbeing as well is to drop the outcome and even work with your regional directors of sales to say, listen, I really want to hit my goals this month, and here's how I'm planning to do And here's what I need from you. I don't think a lot of, I saw your face, I saw your face, I don't think a lot of individual contributors in the sales seat within a community could confidently say to their leader, their sales leader, here's what I need from you. And sometimes it might be a little bit of grace to say. I'm really honing in on my relationship based selling because I feel so confident that if I can get this piece right, my conversions will come way up. I need some support to get there, and so here's what I'm doing on my end to get that done. Where are the gaps? Is there anything else that I need in order to get there? So really leaning into your sales leader and looking to them for some guidance and some support to, to get your performance to the next level. This is what they are here for.
erin:That's really good. And that solves the expectations problems too. Because now all of a sudden you proactively communicated to your support team, what you're doing, and they can help you through that process. And, let's face it, there's some people have a great support system, and there's some people who do not have a great support system. but what I think, what I know, that is available today, more than anything, are people who want to support you. And your ability to reach outside of your company to find that support for you. And that's something that I did not have, or I didn't even know existed, for me when I was inside the community. And had I known, I think that things would have been different for me personally. but that's where we are today, which is really exciting as it becomes really tight game of success inside the industry ourselves, the coaching perspective for sales leaders, staying centered under pressure, all of that. You can do for yourself, you can reach out to people if you don't have that support and if you do have that support, you can activate it by that kind of proactive communication,
Nicole:absolutely. And I'm all about making sure that, if someone's listening to our conversation today, that they're walking away going. Oh, okay. Here's a couple of little nuggets that I'm going to implement. And when you just said, making sure that you're, you're in a good state to perform, it's so important. And, if I can give one sort of tangible piece of advice, it would be to, Prepare for your tour in advance, always. But one strategy I used to do was actually go out into the foyer of the community I was serving at the time and be present 15 minutes before their arrival. And what that allowed me to do was, calm my nerves. Get my head on straight, calm my nerves. if I'm rushed and I'm in a hurry and I'm panicked, that energy flows. Right to the prospect who's coming in with what energy nerves, hesitation, anxiety, right? So I had to center myself and make myself super calm so that I could be, just a calm energy the moment they walked through the door and that trust factor came way up.
erin:Absolutely. It's excellent advice. I don't know how Canadians do it, but down here in the South, I would be like, welcome. Are you a hugger? Because I'm a hugger and we're going to hug. You know what I mean? do Canadians hug like that or no?
Nicole:I think it depends on the market, but yeah, I'm totally a hugger. there was a lot of hugging going on, especially as they were, Leaving the residence, that's for sure.
erin:Yes. it's like how you welcome people is very important, and I like that piece of advice being available, not allowing them to wait too long, having that you're important to me in the moment feeling. and I do believe energy is critical. It is critical. And, In creating that success experience that you want inside of the community. how do you when we talk about and metrics. And a new sales director or struggling sales director where there's a lot of things mounting on you. How do you advise leader in, inside leaderboard sales to break down those lofty goals? Like how, if you are struggling and it's a struggle to meet these metrics that are set for you. How do you break down the goals? How have you coached people to do that?
Nicole:Yeah, specifically within senior living, we take a look at
erin:In general.
Nicole:Yeah, in general. yeah, I can work across all industries. But it's like these bite sized chunks. there's, and I'm speaking Canadian language here. So bear with me, but in the senior living industry here in Canada, there's budgeted occupancy that just takes a look at where you need to be December 31st at the end of the year. And if you were to look at that only, it would be a struggle. So it's even getting so granular to take a look at what do I need to achieve daily? And it's the consistency of your behavior that is directly tied to how you perform on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly basis. before I even tackle a specific number or metric, I like to tackle, what does your day look like? What does your week look like? And are you focusing on the right tasks, the right behaviors in the right order? And if we've got a B sales behavior challenge or issue, then we can work on coaching that specific individual on the right behaviors and what that looks like. I was fortunate enough to have great sales mentorship and leadership throughout my career. So I understood what good sales behavior looks like. I So much of what I can teach and mentor and coach today is because of those mentors that were really in my corner during my sales career. And, I attribute those leaders to being for me. So if you think about it, they dropped the outcome as well. In a sense, so they were like, okay, we've got lofty goals and we'll go after them and we'll achieve success, but in order to get the success, I have to put all my energy and passion into Nicole so that she's well equipped to go get those goals to happen for our team. So it does work, in a cycle that way. it's, on the leadership side and as an individual contributor, dropping the outcome can bring, exceptional results for the team.
erin:Yeah, that's really good from a coaching perspective, because it brings in like operations a little bit, because I like drop the outcome, which equals your resource and not a sales pitch, but in the frame of that, you just. Described as a leader investing into their people that they're serving, right? The sales director in the community, or maybe it's the executive director serving the sales director or the regional sales manager. Whoever it is drop. The outcome becomes we have to be growth oriented rather than goal oriented. Which was another problem that I struggled with, inside of the community. With, obviously expectations management, but also becoming so focused on being at a hundred percent, because that was, Like the gold standard. And that's where I wanted my community to be. And this is that as a leader, I lost sight for me personally, for me, not for anyone else. And just so you know, I do talk about all my failures because there's not a lot of people that do that inside senior living. I have the numbers to prove the success, but I realized that there's a better way to do things. And I think that when I evaluate and analyze. What I could have done differently to make my experience a little bit better for me, from a mindset standpoint, it is switching to dropping the outcome, becoming growth oriented rather than goal oriented. Because what I've learned now that I've switched that thought for me is that I'm going to achieve the goals. And the only difference is I give myself grace, a lot more grace when I'm growing through the process, rather than bulldozing down the process to get to the goal.
Nicole:Exactly. Exactly. And that's why I feel so passionate about what I'm doing at leaderboard sales is because so many times I have seen really successful sales people, like individual contributors, go from their role and get promoted into a leadership seat because of the results that they brought the organization. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think that's great. Get promoted for the work you do. but what lacks is then this person knows how to manage because they've managed their own selves and their own expectations and their behaviors and their processes. They can check boxes, then they get into a leadership seat and then they realize leadership is about strategy and it's about vision and it's about motivating a team and it's about the collective. Outcomes of a group. And it's not about you anymore. And that's where I see people really having a tough time in leadership. And then they want to give up and go back to an individual contributor role in a lot of cases. And so what leaderboard sales does is it equips sales leaders with the right leadership capabilities to lead a team, because it's not about you anymore.
erin:Yeah. And I think there is a gap between. Like you said, from community to regional support, there's a huge gap. And I think that you're right in there to make that gap go away, which is great. there's a lot of people that are teaching leadership and a lot of people that are trying to be the mentor to community level leaders. But what happens to leaders? Like you said, who go from community level to higher up, there's not much training that goes into that, or if a really good successful sales director in a flourishing community goes into the traveling. Sales specialists that go into not so flourishing communities. Did that person get the proper training on how to walk into what could be a dumpster fire, That's a good way to put it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Walking into a community that's struggling is like walking into a different planet. If you're coming from something that's structured and organized and A well oiled machine,
Nicole:Yeah. It takes a special individual. It takes a trained individual to do it. And, and somebody that does have leadership capabilities, who knows how to walk into kind of a volatile dumpster fire and work collectively with that team as like an outsider. And so absolutely those types of roles, definitely need support. They definitely need training and, and that's how we win in sales. And that's how you grow occupancy.
erin:I can call them dumpster fires because all four of my communities, when I first became executive directors or a sales director were dumpster fires. So I am very qualified. and I know the amount of work that it takes to put the fire out and it's a lot of work, a lot, it's a lot of work. I feel like we have, expect, okay. Drop the outcome. Number one, right? Drop the outcome, be the resource and not the sales pitch and guide the customer through the journey. if you are a sales director, that is. Number one, number one, how you've got, that's the number one skill. I have never been a transactional leader. I don't even, I don't even know what that is. I have certainly felt transactional leadership, but everything is relationship based and. I do believe that's what the profession needs from us. number two, the expectations management is so critical
Nicole:and
erin:I like how you phrase it, it give everything and expect nothing, right? and I, and it's, and then communicate and implement what you do know, because expectations will, unmet expectations will set up a bad failure of customer service sales in potentially an epic proportions, right? I also think from a sales leadership perspective and from an executive director and any level leadership, the most peaceful way to life is have high expectations for yourself, how you respond, how you react and what you allow versus having high expectations for other people. And expecting that, that them to have the same standards that you have. Just a little FYI, that doesn't work,
Nicole:that's very true.
erin:And I think from a sales perspective, I like it when people say to me, okay, this is what to expect on this tour today.
Nicole:Um, magic, that's the other part of that expectations management. like any, I can't even remember where I've been, but somebody would be like, okay, here's what you can expect to happen. And I'm like, that instantly calms me. Yes. just okay. here's what I do. I went in, and this is such a personal experience, but I went into a restaurant that was different and unique, unlike anything that I have been into before, and I didn't even know what to do. Do I sit down? Do I wait for them to be seated? For them to seat me? Do I go? Do I order from the table? Do I order from the line? I don't even know what to do, And you're just clunking your way through it. When somebody would have said Welcome. Is this your first time? Here's what to expect. Instead, I asked four people. I don't know what to do. Exactly. And imagine that from a customer experience perspective in senior living, imagine if you were to Equipping your prospect and family members with directions, a picture of the parking lot, a picture of your outside signage, just in case they miss it. how many times they drive past our community, have to do a U turn and come back, and then now their anxiety is up. So anything you can do to alleviate any pre visit anxiety, I love to give them more information on what the expectation is when they arrive at my community. I love to provide them with a picture of what I look like, who is Nicole, what is this person about? Feel free to even include a little bit of a little bio about you and when you walk through the door, this is who you're going to see and we'll start our time together. I love using the question, like, how does that sound? And how many of prospects are going to say, that sounds horrible. They're going to say, that sounds great. And immediately you get their buy in and you're like, okay, great. Let's get started. So it really plays on the customer experience, that customer journey, and you're really adding value to their lives before they set through the, before they even come through the door.
erin:Yeah, absolutely. That's great. This strategic tips for people to take away. It's so good. Yes. Okay. The other thing we talked about was breaking down lofty goals and it really, it starts with 1 minute at a time, but looking at it per day. What do you have to do per day to get to the big number of goals? And then education, I think is something that we walk through throughout this entire process. And it certainly fits in the mold of dropping the outcome and being a resource and not a sales pitch. But I tell people all the time, you are the expert in comparison to someone who does not work inside senior living. You get to see things, my community was 124 residents. I got to see things times 124. Right? I know the value of education from an operations standpoint and guiding people through transitions. From a sales perspective, dive into the power of education on the front end.
Nicole:Yeah, if you are somebody who is potentially struggling with an aspect of sales or an aspect of your role, whether you're in sales or operations and senior living, the wealth of knowledge that's out there for free, including you, Ms. Thompson, and all the value that you deliver to the sector, it is Abundant right now in terms of education and the wealth of information that's available for free that, it's almost impossible to go through the senior living industry without being able to tap into these education sources. And so it's not just about checking the compliance boxes about, okay, yes, I've done my homework and I've done the modules that I have to do, but how are you equipping yourself with success through outside voices? many people have a lot of knowledge and experience to share and they're willing to gift it away. And I consider education a gift.
erin:Yeah, that's what we're doing right now, right? really people pay a lot of money for a consultant to come in and tell them that. Now, granted, yes, that's what we want to do. But it is, this is real life giving away with expecting nothing in return. That's it.
Nicole:We're dropping the outcome, Erin.
erin:Yes, we are dropping the outcome. and, but that's. That's what caused us to be successful inside the community. And over time it will create the success outside of the community too, Yes. And then another component for sales, and then we'll wrap things up that I think is important to discuss with a sales leader, right? Is this analysis by paralysis. I've heard it say that all of our prospects have the opportunity to Get more education than ever before. They can go to all of the different communities, websites, they can listen to podcasts. They can listen to social media influencers. They can get books on what to do. But if you have too much information, what happens, you don't know which decision to make. Yes. So a sales leader can help because they are the expert, And teach. Their prospects, how to take the next step, do you see analysis by paralysis, have you seen that in your career and. Have you helped somebody walk through that?
Nicole:Yeah, I think, listen data and insights are Valuable. I will never ever say that there is no value in insights and data. I love numbers But to somebody who is a sales representative in a community If they don't have the knowledge or the background or the business acumen to really wrap their head around what the data and the insights are telling them, it is going to impact their performance on a deeper level. And this is why sometimes we see the churn in sales reps and in leadership within the senior living sector. And so your first order of business as a sales Leader of as a team is to educate your people on the value that this data and insights brings them as a salesperson. So again, drop the outcome. we never penalize based on the numbers, based on the metrics. We use them as a coaching guide. And that's why the metrics are there. And then we ask ourselves, okay, so let's go back in time, perhaps 30 years ago, senior living communities existed then. Did we have the technology stacks we have today? No. What were we doing back then? Were we head buried in, our CRM? And was your sales leader, your regional sales leader playing CRM disc jockey? I like to call it. No. We were out in the field. We were connecting with people. although I love technology, it can be a little bit of a slippery slope that leads to this analysis paralysis. again, just diving into the data, understanding it, know that it brings you value as a salesperson because really guides your behavior, and then park it. It's just park it, because, there's no sense in looking at the same thing every single day, because those data and metrics, they're going to change over time. And, you don't need to look at it every day. You just need to look at it in snapshots.
erin:Data will tell you a story, and that's a great story, but numbers can't scare you, they need to encourage you,
Nicole:yeah, they should empower you, and although sometimes the number on the screen looks, maybe looks a little bit dismal, Let that be your motivator and let that be something that you attribute a goal to and say, okay, this is my mission is I'm going to, I'm going to tackle this for a second. I'm going to drop it. I'm going to go on a tour and I'm going to connect with the person, the people in front of me and make this journey for them easy to navigate. That's the core role of a salesperson within a community is how do I make this so easy for them that it feels natural for them to say, yes,
erin:that's the end folks. That was good. So good. That was so good. Oh, Nicole, thank you so much. you drive home points very well there. I've always believed that connection is your number one. It was my number one skill. I didn't have any strategies. I didn't have any closing tricks. It was all about connection and how did I serve them rather than how did I close them? And that all points down out to dropping the outcome. And, you have an excellent way of inciting and inspiring that in people. And it's important for that work and that message to get out there. So I'm happy that you were a guest today. I'm very honored. I'm speaking to a Canadian, so maybe my head's getting a little bit bigger today. I don't know, but I greatly appreciate your insights and your time today. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. And to all my listeners, as always aspire for more for you.