Aspire for More with Erin
Aspire for More with Erin
How to Create Collaborative Relationships with Local Nursing Schools
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Hey, folks, it's Erin again. And I want to thank you for being here spending this time with me today. I have with me a very valued and distinguished guest, somebody who's going to bring a lot of insight to us, in regards to the nursing shortage. what senior living operators can do in partnering with schools, it is just going to be a very rich conversation that I hope brings a lot of value to you. So Dr. Tyler Sturdivant is the director of nursing at Coastal Alabama Community College, where there are six nursing locations in the state of Alabama. So thank you, Dr. Tyler, Dr. Sturdivant for being here. I appreciate that.
Thank you, Erin. I'm glad to be here.
Erin:Yes, I saw you post on LinkedIn about a new partnership with Troy University. And that got me excited. give us a little bit of a rundown of who you are, what you do, and a lot of exciting things happening, for you at, Coastal Community College.
like you said, I'm the director of nursing here at coastal. I oversee our 6 nursing campuses that houses our practical nursing program, our associate degree in nursing program and our in mobility program, which allows paramedics and LPNs to bridge to that are in role. so we have really 3. Those 3 programs across our 6 campuses. You're right. We did just sign a new memorandum of understanding a new agreement with Troy University, which allows students in our associate degree program to be concurrently enrolled in their baccalaureate program at the same time and receive all of the tuition discounts that we have. Contractually with them for those students and receive all the toy resources, such as the library resources and advising resources that come along with being a choice student while also being a coastal student. not only are they working on their associate degree, but they're working on the baccalaureate degree at the same time. So it really helps them bridge that educational gap much quicker. as they're pursuing both. Degrees at the same time, so we're very excited about that partnership with Troy recently, and we have some other partnerships as well that look similar, but we are very excited about that new addition for coastal.
Erin:That's it. That sounds great. if I was going to be a nursing student, that sounds very enticing to do that to have all that access all those benefits. That's fun. So they would do the 2 year program with you. at coastal
right and
Erin:then. Still be able and then move to the four year and with Troy.
they're actually enrolled in both at the exact same time. So they would be completing our curriculum as scheduled, and then maybe taking one or two courses at Troy at the same time that they go toward their baccalaureate degree. So it would drastically reduce the amount of time it would take them to gain that baccalaureate degree. If they were to just. Graduate with their associates degree, and then go to the baccalaureate degree, because they're working on the required courses at the exact same time. depending on when that student would start in that concurrent program. They may actually finish their baccalaureate 1 semester after they finish their associate degree. So it is amazing where. historically, students saw that progressive step door. Let me get through with my associates. Then I'll go back from a baccalaureate and then masters and doctorate and whatever they chose to do. But now we are combining the forces to have an associate degree completion while working on the baccalaureate at the exact same time. So it reduces that time. It reduces that money. It reduces the stress, I think, because you're already stressed in nursing school. So let's just be stressed shorter amount of time if we can work on both degrees at the same time. So we're super excited about it.
Erin:That is exciting. That makes me excited for the students who, who want to do that. my mother went to a 2 year degree. They went to the 4 year degree and then went and got her masters for a nurse practitioner. I have worked with several, LPNs who. Where LPNs and then going to RN and then, went on to get their PhD. So it's certainly, a fascinating concept that I hope a lot of people take advantage of, because that seems very worthwhile to dive into. And I think it, leads into the big question that we want to answer today. And since you're a doctor, You can solve all of our problems, right? It's the nursing shortage in general. So getting your perspective on that, for me would be very critical. And then what can senior living long term care do to help attract People to our industry, so give us your take from your perspective from your high level overview from your detailed perspective of nursing shortages. Is it true? Do you see it? Is it growing? Is it waning? what you got for us?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:It is 100 percent true that we are in a nursing shortage and have been for quite some time and it's really compounded if you really go to the educational setting as well, it's compounded by not having enough nursing faculty to teach those students. the interest is there what we've seen for students that want to enter the nursing profession, but there are restrictions on what educational institutions can do as far as enrollment when there's not. A lot of qualified faculty are not enough qualified faculty to teach those students or not enough clinical facilities that are willing to, have students in their facilities for clinical or preceptor ships. There's not enough to go around to have an indefinite amount of. Nursing student enrollment to meet that demand. I really think it's 2 fold. Yes, there's not enough nurses graduating, but there's not enough nurses graduating because there's probably not enough faculty to adequately teach them and again, it's multifactorial. I think the code pandemic really compounded that shortage, or at least made the world more aware of that shortage. As we had such acute illness quickly, and a vast number of individuals were acutely sick quickly. we needed more nurses immediately to care for these sick individuals. And I think the shift may have been from senior living to where there probably Was a shortage and still is of nurses, but the shift immediately went to a shortage in acute care because we had to focus that demand focus that nursing personnel to care for all of that demand in acute care. yes, there is a nursing shortage. I think it is. I can't say it's improving, but I think it's shifted. I think the shortage has shifted now from let's just get through code and get our acute care hospitals and our acute care settings situated to now that nurses are focusing on more about their personal health and mental health and their work environment. Whereas before, during code, the dollar attracted the nurse, so the higher you can, the most money you can make is where I went to work. And it was just. Part of the culture at that time, because it's I'll see you and raise you like my hospital is going to give me give you a dollar more an hour. So I'm going to go to that hospital because I need you and I have the financial means to do that. And right or wrong. That's what happened. And every nurse chase the dollar, whether that was in their home state, whether that was in a travel state that shift to acute care happened because that shift. Needed to happen, but it happened because they were throwing indefinite amounts of money to nurses. So I think that's. Mentality is shifting to where nurses are no longer chasing the book. They're not no longer chasing that extra dollar. They're focusing on that long term career plan where I may not make quite as much per hour to work in this setting. But what benefits do I have? What hours do I have? How am I going to be treated in this position? How does the environment. Support me as a nurse. So it's no longer chasing the buck. It's chasing the physical mental health, the overall healthy work environment, which I think is beneficial for long term care or senior living as we shift that focus. So the shortage is still there, but now the shortage is not directly related to acute care. I think we can start to see a shift in mindset of nursing in general, as a profession to be more mindful of. Choices. And again, not just chasing that dollar.
Erin:It's supply and demand, isn't it? It's
supply and demand.
Erin:yeah. I think that mental health support, and time are the new resources that high level, high quality leaders, whether you're a nurse, whether you're an administrator, whether you're a caregiver who knows their worth, That is. That seems to be the new dollar, although the dollar still matters, right? But I think there's a lot of social media influence in the fact that time is money and money is time. And we're seeing You know, we, I being one of them, you sacrifice so much for success and quality and all that kind of stuff that you probably make 5 an hour. If your salary, my annual salary was, I was comfortable, but my hourly wage was not, My annual salary. what are hospitals, what are doctor's offices? What are all these people doing to support the person rather than just pay them because throwing money at people doesn't solve the problem,
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:right?
Erin:It doesn't, I think it does short term. You may have something, but it will not sustain a long term commitment. For sure. And I'm, thank you for bringing that up. Do you see, do you hear, I'm going to ask you this question multiple times on every point we talk about today, but do you hear. What people are saying like when they're in school, and we know that when you're young that you don't exactly know what's out there yet. But you also have people because my mother went back to school when she was in her 30s to become a nurse. You have people redesigning their life. do you hear specific or see patterns that. Give you clues as to what specifically these new graduates are looking for in regards to mental health and support
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:So it's very interesting, especially for us at coastal. We have a, we're not just your 20 to 22 year old student. We have students and of all age ranges of all backgrounds of all. Levels of life, and I think, yes, money, like you said, is still a factor. You still have to pay your bills, but there is that shift now to boundaries. There's that shift to what is this going to get me personally in my life 5, 10, 15 years from now. And I'm, I can say when I 1st started as a new graduate. I didn't care about retirement. I didn't, it wasn't at the forefront of your mind. And for most younger individuals who just had a high school, just had a college, they really don't think about retirement. But I think that shift is happening as again, we're looking for that long term solution, or at least more long term than we used to. focusing on those benefits, yes, I may make a dollar less an hour at this facility, but. I get state retirement with this. And that equals a much more long term beneficial plan than me taking this dollar now when I could retire in 25 years because I'm part of state retirement. So again, you're going to have students who still want the most money that they can possibly get. But you, we are seeing that shift of let me think about how I'm treated in this organization. How am I Respected, how am I supported? How am I going to be part of this team longer than 2 years? Like, how do I see myself fit in? And so that is a, I think, a recruitment tool for every. Every organization, whether it be senior living or acute care is, yes, money matters, but. We also want to know graduates want to know how do they fit in? How are they supported? How are they a part of this bigger team? And so I think that focus. On recruitment would be beneficial for any organization.
Erin:Do you see, talking about senior living specifically, based on your experience when you were in school and, as the director of nursing, at coastal community college, do you see a big presence of senior living industry people coming in and talking or students talking about them? do you know about us? Yeah.
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:yes, and no, so what's great about coastal's curriculum, which is part of the community college system of Alabama is. We are required by state mandate that we have 90 hours of. Long term care experience in our 1st, 3 semesters of the curriculum. in semester, number 1, we have 45 hours that has to be in a long term care or senior living space. And then in the 3rd semester, it has, we have to have 45 hours of a practicum experience. We are immersing our students in long term care settings, not only because we have to, but because we know that this, the population is aging and the care is going to be needed. The demand is going to be there for nurses in that population in that setting. So we are immersing our students in that, in the curriculum to experience those types of environments. So yes, we see a lot of Participation with long term care facilities, senior living facilities, especially with allowing us to be in their facilities for clinical hours. And I say, that's 1 of the big things is if the organization doesn't already allow that, please consider that, especially with community colleges as we were required to have long term care hours. So if you're not contracted with. A school or an institution to allow those. Let's talk about it because we need the hours just as much as I feel like the institution needs the nurse to staff and what better way to recruit than to have students in your organization doing clinical hours and having that positive experience. And because they had that positive experience, they learn to like that environment and learn to like that setting. And when they graduate, they'll work there. So we've always seen a correlation between if they had a great clinical experience in the curriculum, they're more likely to be employed at that institution or that setting when they graduate. so I think. We personally coastal personally does have a lot of communication with senior living in long term care. we have many times facilities come in and recruit our senior level practical nursing students. Our senior level are in students. They can come drop in and do a lunch. Lunch and learn and have an hour of our time to really talk about the organization, talk about the pay and the benefits and the skill level and what that environment looks like. We're always have an open door to that to allow that to happen. we just got to know about it. Ask, we, we want to welcome you because we are just as much as a partner to increase that workforce. in senior living, as you are in recruiting, so we can help guide those students to that setting as well.
Erin:Yeah. So senior livings. Long term cares can go to community colleges, universities and ask to come in and do a lunch and learn.
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:100 percent we welcome it. what better way to dispel the myth or, reduce the stigma of senior living than to have the personnel in that environment to come talk about the. The setting could come talk about the environment. So we welcome it 100%. And if you're not doing it, reach out and let's do it because we love to host. We love to host to increase your workforce. We love it. we have, I'll tell you this. we have a metric that we have to monitor just for accreditation purposes of job placement. After graduation, so just as much as you need the workforce of in senior living, we need to meet that metric as well to show that we are. Are having graduates that are gainfully employed, so we will partner 100 percent to allow that to happen.
Erin:It's great. Do you hear what people. let's say they went to a long term care community and they did their hours. can you tell us what people are saying about it?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:Sure. I can tell you from a nursing perspective, it's really, it really boils down to the perception that. There's less pay there, and there's less skill level there, and there's a less opportunity for a career advancement, as far as the level of care, the quality of care, I've heard nothing but positive things, especially in the organizations that we partner with. But I think the perception is that because the skill level is a little less than that of acute care, then the pay is less than that of acute care. And there's this stigma that. LPNs are the majority of the workforce and there's no room for advancement as an LPN. So that's the rumblings that I hear is that there's this less than environment, less than skills, less than, pay, less than as far as promotion opportunities. and I know that there have been perceptions from residents that I've heard of quality of care, subpar care, Reduce staffing numbers that lead to that subpar care and our personal experiences. I don't think we've seen that necessarily, but from a student perspective, yes, less pay, less skills, less opportunity for advancement.
Erin:Yeah, from a. Skilled nursing perspective, I would say that's probably true for LPNs, from one of the biggest tools that I have used to attract LPNs to assisted living and memory care is the sky is the limit inside assisted living and memory care. So if you have an LPN inside nursing, inside of a nursing school and they show. Leadership capabilities and problem solving capabilities and want to grow, but doesn't necessarily have the time or the desire to become an RN their path to growth and leadership and management is wide open and senior living in regard and assisted living and memory care. It's wide open, in the state of Alabama, memory care has to have the LPNs that are giving the medications. And if you can prove that you can problem solve and you can do all these things, then leadership is just, experience away. You can be good at sales, become the sales director, then become, an executive director and then go through the ranks. When we dissect senior living, which is long term care and assisted living and memory care and independent living. LPNs have a no barriers to growth inside assisted living and memory care, which is exciting, right? Then you have long term care, which there is a clear delineation between an LPN and an RN. And you hear about it all the time. which. I was naive to at the beginning and even got myself in trouble here recently when I asked somebody, are you an RN and I didn't even ask it in a way that was. It's meant to be derogatory. I was just trying to understand what their role was. And that was the wrong question to ask, because the immediate response was, I'm an, but I know how to do this, and this, and I've been here for this. And then I was like, clearly that was the wrong way to ask my question. I should have asked what is your role inside the community? so there is a clear delineation between LPN and RN. Inside of a long term care. why do you think, do, are people still coming in to get an LPN degree and license and not go any higher? Or are most people is their plan is to get the RN, like what do you see?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:A little bit of both, I think what's really unique about the community college system is that for the associate degree or in program, the 1st, 3 semesters of that curriculum is what we call the curriculum because students after that 3rd semester, whether they're an RN student, but after the 1st, 3 semesters of completion, they can test for their licensure. We have a standalone program where, after the 1st, 3 semesters, they test out, they graduate, and they choose to come back at a later date to the program. But technically, anyone enrolled in our program, our associate degree program goes through the exact same 1st, 3 semesters is that standalone program and they have the ability to licensure as an after that 3rd semester. So I'm glad you brought that up because. There's always this stigma, especially with LPN students that the LPN is less than and they're not. They are a different scope of practice. And that scope of practice is growing every single day, especially in Alabama on what can and cannot be done. And I think the line is getting a little bit closer to that of an Orion just on scope of practice. So I'm glad you brought up the career advancement, because. That is a common mentality that we hear here that the LPN is less than the RN. no, they are different than the RN and they have a place just like the RN has a place, just like the CNA has a place. There's a place in this team environment for every individual. And because of the way our curriculum is set up. The RN student is getting the exact same education in the first 3 semesters as our LPN students. So I love how the community college curriculum is set up because it helps dispel that myth of LPNs are less than. Because really and truthfully, everybody's in the LPN program in the first 3 semesters. But we do, we find some students who just choose to go the LPN route 1st. And test out after the 1st, 3 semesters, and then come back 10 years from now in that mobility program where they can come back as an LPN and take 2 or 3 courses and being in. We find some that enter the or in program and decide after those 3 semesters. Hey, I'm completely content right now in my life to be an LPN and I'll come back later. And then we have those that go all the way through and become an audience. We have huge demand for our standalone program just as well as we have huge demand for our own program. So I think the industry has done a great job on trying to dispel that myth that are less than and there will always be that. Mentality, I believe, to some extent, just by scope of practice, but I'll tell you, Alabama is pushing the limit every day on what that LPN can do to be more in line with what that RN can do. again, it's part of a team. It's all about teamwork and collaboration and students just choose 1 round or the other based on their personal life. And we're seeing enrollment in both.
Erin:yeah, a key story is one of my directors of nursing in on my assisted living side is an LPN and she ran circles around multiple RNs. like ran circles. She was my number one. There were things that she could not do in memory care because she did not have RN behind her name. But she instructed the RN on what to do because she knew the reg so well. Because, it's really about knowing the regs and problem solving and implementation that in assisted living and memory care, that is how you become successful and in making good choices, good decisions based on the facts that you have. And now she's an executive director and she's leading her own community and she can go as far as she wants to go within the company that she's in. And she didn't need an RN. She doesn't need it. So I think LPNs. Need to clip their mindset a little bit, of you don't have to have an RN to be successful. If you open up your eyes and see where you fit. And if you hone in on problem solving and you hone in on pattern recognition and you hone in on regulatory processes and sales. Find yourself, a memory care, an assisted living to work in and watch you soar, you don't have to have an RN. Now, if you want to go work in a long term care, if you want to work in acute care, you want to work in a hospital, that's completely different. but there is avenues to really grow, without the RN degree inside of healthcare, for sure, certainly senior living. So that's great. what do you hear? beside coming in and having that lunch and learn, with your students, what advice do you have senior living operators, in Alabama and outside, right? how can we entice more nurses, LPNs and RNs, To work inside of our community, knowing that we're not going to be top of license and skill wise. And the pay may be, although, the pay is pretty good these days inside long term care. what are some other avenues that we can do to connect with students and schools and add value to you? maybe some of it's collaboration, right? But is there anything else that you can think that we could do, to add value to you?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:I think when you, when, if and when you do those lunch and learns to really focus on Dispelling those myths. yes, the pay may not be as great, but it probably is to be honest. The skills probably aren't as great, although it might be depending on what facility you work at. But focus again on that mindfulness, that health, that mental health. What can this environment bring to you? What can this setting bring to you? Allow those clinical experiences if possible. But I also want to throw out the apprenticeship. Opportunity as well. apprenticeships in Alabama are not new, but nursing apprenticeships in Alabama are fairly new. And what an apprenticeship does is really allows. The educational institution and the health care facility to collaborate throughout that entire students nursing school journey and essentially what happens is the health care facility. So senior living would hire this student as an employee as a student nurse apprentice would be their job code and they would pay for tuition books, fees. But also pay for some clinical hours that they do, but also they're working for you. They're working for you outside of those curricular requirements. So there is some financial, responsibility up front of the institution, but they're getting all of their education through Coastal, but they're getting all of their clinical experience, or at least a portion of their clinical experience for work and clinical. Through your institution. So you've retained and provided on the job training and on the job orientation for 3 or 5 semesters, depending if we have an LPN student or an RN student. You're paying them for those experiences. They're meeting the objectives of COSA Alabama, or whoever the educational institution is, and usually upon graduation, there's a work commitment that is required of that student. Again, not required per Alabama, but usually there's a work commitment. not only have you had a student for 5 semesters, who is your employee working in your environment, contributing to your team, being a part of that team, being immersed in that culture, they're going to work for you when they graduate. Thank you. because they have that work commitment because of the apprenticeship model. So again, nursing school is much more than senior living, but You would allow that student to be employed by you to work for you outside of curricular requirements, but also get paid to do clinical with you. you're retaining that student. So I would recommend at least considering an apprenticeship opportunity and that's just a phone call to the division chair, the director of nursing, the. Clinical coordinator, if that school has 1 to have those discussions, it's not very hard to set up, just to understand the financial implications and how the regulations go with that apprenticeship. But I can't say enough about how much recruitment and how much retainment of staff. That has allowed because what better way to have an employee that knows your environment and knows your culture. If they've been there for 5 semesters already, they've been trained for you with you for 5 semesters already. So we love apprenticeships in nursing. We love what it does for the nursing workforce and recruitment and retainment of staff and because they've completed all of those hours with you, they're going to stay with you. Because they've had a positive experience, so other than reducing the stigma through your communication, allowing clinicals, I would say, consider an apprenticeship.
Erin:Yeah, that's a good idea. And I will tell you the loyalty. I worked for a senior living company that paid for half of my school and I was just a concierge and, The loyalty that I had to that company and still do, is. Is amazing because they gave me a gift and I was an excellent employee to them. And that is, that's some of those, like you add value to people and therefore value will come back to you. and so I really love that idea. So thank you for sharing that. I do you see, or what do you hear like new graduates? So they've gone through the entire training or schooling and. Now they're ready to go into the job force, right into the workforce and. Be our heroes, wherever they land. What do you hear them talk about? They're excited the most. We've talked about their pain points, we've talked about, um. some of the things that we need to overcome as an industry is a senior living industry. But what are new graduates most excited about when they are looking for a job? What are the buzzwords that you hear or patterns that you see?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:The biggest thing I hear is impact. How much impact can they bring to their patients or residents? How much impact can they bring to the team? How will their employment impact their family? So I think Impact is the buzzword. what can I do? How is what I do impacting the facility that I work for? So it's all about what can we contribute, especially now, like I said, we contributed to that 1 specific. Issue, which was a huge issue of coded to heal and to, reduce that stress on acute care facilities. But now the shift has focus or the focus has shifted to what impact can I bring and I think. In nursing school, you have that impact, but you're not licensed to have that independent impact. when you gain that license as an LPN or an RN, and you fly like a bird in the workforce. How can you touch lives every single day? And whether that be in the workforce, how that work, how that employment impacts your home life. That is the word that we hear. They're so excited about what impact they can make on the world. and I'll share that too with as a faculty member and as a director. It's what impact can I make. As a nurse on my students in the lives that they touch when they graduate, because it's if you think about it, it's so huge. yes, I teach a classroom of 60 students, but those 60 students throughout their career is going to touch hundreds of thousands of people's lives. So what impact can that graduate brain to the world? And I think that's the biggest thing that we hear.
Erin:That's nice. that was a great way of explaining it. And I think it's a great way for us as senior living industry to, to really make that shine for them because the difference in a hospital. And what you have in long term care is long term impact, like it's so different. I've never worked in a hospital. I, my mother has, I've heard the stories. but the long term impact and when you work inside senior living is second to none. and there is value in that.
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:There's
Erin:certainly a way for us to talk about that. And then I think just my piece of advice to you, because, I'm not a doctor and, just from a different perspective, is the one thing that I think that we'll just say LPNs and even RNs, but if you could teach students, leadership is something that is so critical that they will need. When they go out into that workforce, the self awareness piece, why am I reacting a certain way? When somebody comes at me this way, what is the pattern that I react? Because the more that we can diffuse emotional situations, the more impact you will have, because the world is becoming more emotional people tend to be more reactive and whether you're in long term care or hospitals, Or the restaurant, really. people are being so reactive, and I think self awareness And leadership and problem solving and being solution oriented, which I know you teach in nursing, but from a people to people perspective, if they come out with that skill, sky's the limit,
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:Emotional intelligence is huge and we call them soft skills, but they're not really soft skills. They're not soft at all. they impact. Lives every day on how you handle other people. So I agree completely. And I appreciate that because it is a struggle. It is an experience that we see that yes, we can teach nursing all day, but how do you impact the life of that student outside of nursing to get along with the world? So I appreciate that so much.
Erin:My, even my own experience, my son was in the hospital a lot in his first two years of life, and there were people who made you feel. Seen and heard, listened to, and then there were people who, didn't and, there's a difference. There is a huge difference and you get more when you understand than when you're just stepping in trying to. and I tell family members too, I was in the hospital with a friend and she was like, the, a family member told the nurse, You didn't put your name on the board of who's on today. And I was like, don't do that. I wanted to tell my friend, don't do that. There's another way. There is another way. Don't do that anyways, but I will continue to teach people how to treat, nurses and everything better. thank you for today. I feel like you have given us lots of insights. And how we can better support you and then how, and support your students and wanting to work inside senior living impact is a huge word that is great. and the pain points for us to focus on. This has been very enlightening and I hope, we'll shed some light for people, to start doing that wherever they are located. So thank you. And if you're looking for a nursing school to work with, Coastal Alabama Community College is a school that has six nursing locations and a new relationship with Troy University, which is very exciting. how many students do you think you're going to have or was this in your last graduating class?
DR. Tyler Sturdivant:roughly, we graduated about 100 RNs in the summer and I think about 20 standalone LPNs in the summer. and that's our typical numbers each semester. We have about 120. so we are trucking along and we're doing our best to meet that demand with the faculty shortage and our shortage and keep them coming. We'll do our best to educate them and train them. Thank you.
Erin:It's great. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you listeners and as always aspire for more for you.