Aspire for More with Erin
Aspire for More with Erin
Assume Nothing... a conversation with Malinda Shultice
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In this episode of the Aspire for More with Erin podcast, Erin and guest Malinda Schulte, professor and founder of Ms. Healthcare Consulting, discuss strategies to help leaders in senior living avoid burnout and empower their teams. They explore the importance of not assuming others share the same knowledge, categorizing tasks to avoid feeling overwhelmed, and fostering a psychologically safe environment.
Malinda shares her personal journey and practical tips, including creating an effective tier system for task management and emphasizing basic training and clarity within leadership roles. The conversation aims to equip leaders with the mindset and tools to create a sustainable and effective work environment, ultimately enhancing both personal and team performance.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
00:38 Guest Introduction: Melinda Schultice
01:40 Realizing Assumptions in Leadership
04:23 Creating a Culture of Empowerment
05:56 The Importance of Psychological Safety
08:13 Personal Leadership Journeys
23:19 Prioritizing Tasks: Tiers of Work
33:00 Final Thoughts and Advice for Leaders
35:38 Conclusion and Contact Information
Here is the link to the New ED's Playbook Course: https://growyoursalesskills.thinkific.com/courses/the-new-eds-playbook-creating-an-impactful-community-culture
Here is Malinda Shultice's LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malinda-shultice-dhs-mpa-lnha-43225052/
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Welcome back to the Aspire for More with Erin podcast. That's here to educate, equip, and empower the next generation of Senior Living Leaders. Today's episode is for every leader who has ever ended the day feeling like they gave everything. And still left with more on the list tomorrow. We're talking about how to get everything done without getting depleted in the process, and how stopping the cycle might start with a single mindset shift. Stop assuming people know what you know and start building from the ground up. That's a pretty powerful phrase. That is very powerful. Yes, I'm joined by the thoughtful and fierce Melinda Schulte. Someone who's walked the path, felt the pressure, and found ways to shift it. She is a professor and founder of Ms. Healthcare Consulting. Together we're gonna be unpacking two big ideas, tears of work. How to categorize tasks. So not everything feels like a fire and training from the basics. Why assuming knowledge backfires and how clarity can create freedom. So take a deep pause, a deep breath. You want to be in the right frame of mind. To understand that if you are tired of being a first responder and the best fixer for every issue, if you want to delegate with confidence and if you crave more freedom in your leadership day, this episode. Is your permission slip to do so? let's dig in. Melinda, I want you to go back to what you said in our prep call, that it took you years to realize you were assuming people knew things you never actually taught them. Tell us how that realization changed your leadership and your stress levels, because I have been there too.
Malinda:Well, Aaron, thanks for having me on today. I feel blessed and honored to be on, and these are not actually concepts that I've realized until later on in my career. no one really tells you earlier on when you become an administrator, what this actually looks like. You learn the hard way. As time goes on, you start to understand better your own needs as well as that of your residents and your team. And once I actually caught on to some of the diminishing behavior that I was doing for myself, I was already down a pretty dark pathway. That's actually what segued me into starting my own consulting company, to be honest, because I realized that I had made so many errors along the way and had failed so many times that I wanted to try to alleviate or take some of that from other people's plates if I could help. And one of the big concepts that I really focus on is trying to make that shift like you had suggested, from depleting to empowerment I had gained all this knowledge along the way from various scenarios, whether good or bad, And it just became second nature to me to lead assuming that everyone knew and was on that same journey with me, when in fact that is not the case at all.
Erin:Mm-hmm. And as
Malinda:the administrator, you wear a lot of hats. if someone's on vacation, you become the social worker. If you are, short, clinical leader, you take the nonclinical tasks in addition to your own. So over time you just accidentally take on different roles and become a subject matter expert in a lot of different things. But what we fail to do is because we're so busy putting out fires while also trying to think strategically in big picture, at the same time, we forget that not everyone knows what we know. And so one of the things that I actually. Started to realize between myself and my clinical leader, my director of nursing, was how frequently her and I were doing this. And we were lucky to not have a lot of turnover. So it's not like we scared people away, but what we were realizing was that people were saying that they didn't always feel like they had been equipped with the all of the tools in their toolbox to do what they needed to effectively. And so what we really looked at, her and I is we had to stop assuming the basics. So what did that actually look like? it sounds great in theory. What we had to figure out how to put that into practice. And so one of the things that we did was. During orientation, whether you'd been a C, let's say it's a CNA, maybe someone has been a CNA for 30 years, or maybe they'd only been, three weeks they had just passed their exam. We didn't assume that, the 30 year veteran or the three week newbie knew any of. The same information coming in. We started them fresh with the basic skill sets that we felt like they needed to be successful regardless of her or I were in the building. And so it really started at that orientation point. because we were failing from that point on, like we were failing people coming into the building.'cause you're so apt to try to get them on the floor or get that position filled. And you fail to realize that if you don't give that person space, to grow and give them a little bit of time to get their sea legs underneath of them, you're already starting off in a rocky way. And so we had to stop that cycle. And so it really started with orientation. But also the other thing is it didn't just stop there, that's where it began. But no matter how long a person was with us, the other thing we realized was, creating that environment of psychological safety. And I. Giving people the permission to say, I don't know, without the repercussion attached to that or the shame, was the other way to continue through that practice of not assuming people knew things. Because I can look back at my career and there's a few times that really stick out to me. And senior vice president type people or regional directors, they probably mean, well, they have a lot on their plates too, but they'll say things in a semi condescending way or very flippantly, and they've already assumed that you should know X, Y, and Z. So I can immediately take myself back to how diminished and depleted and embarrassed I felt in those moments for not knowing something basic. And I never wanted anyone else to feel. The way that I had been made to, to feel in those moments. And so really we had to figure out how to find enough time in our days also to take things back down to this basic element because in long-term care, there's just never enough time in a day. There's just never enough time. And so we had to figure out how to carve out intentional, five minutes here, 10 minutes there. How can we figure out how to strategically make sure everyone on our team or in that particular position knows how to have the tools that they need in their toolbox to get their job done well, once we took the time to actually do that, you'd be amazed. We just got less questions because people felt like they had what they needed to do their job. And they knew we were there as a resource. That ongoing education never stopped, but people felt empowered to go do the job because we had given them what they needed in the first place. And that's, that began with us realizing we had to stop assuming. Everyone knew anything about their position coming in. So giving them that base knowledge and that room to be okay with saying, I don't know, and creating that safe space and us not judging them for not knowing something really helped to create a culture of empowerment, which really, made our jobs easier, so that's really where it all began
Erin:I have lived a life. My sister, we used to get into fights all the time and she would call me the assumer and I would say, no, I'm the knower. Oh, I know I'm the knower. But as I have grown, I have realized I have assumed a lot in my life. one of them was when I first became an executive director. I was raised in a little bit of a sheltered, like small school environment. so where I went to school, a lot of people thought like me, or at least I thought, they thought like me And so when I entered into an executive director role, I never, it never even crossed my mind that people weren't motivated like me. Or passionate like me, actually came to work because it was a job and not necessarily because every day I, every day felt like Christmas because we were impacting people's lives. Like I was speaking a different language than most people, and it wasn't until I realized You think what? even people that I had worked with for years, but on their level, like when I was the concierge at that same community or when I was the sales and marketing at that same community, I didn't have a perspective that an executive director has. And so I would look at things and I'm like, you didn't know that. And so you realize that you do have to slow down and back way up. To get everybody on the same page, you do have to slow down so you can speed up because it's the fundamentals that people need to know. Yes. And I was even recently talking to A CEO and he was just like, some people you hire don't even know what a spend down is. And now how many times do we assume that people know what a spend down is whenever they work inside assisted living, senior living in general. When he made that comment, I was just like, oh, I never guess. I never would've assumed that.
Malinda:that's exactly what it is because it's never anything complex and it's always the basic fundamentals, but people have such this feeling of shame because they don't wanna look stupid for asking something fundamental. But then that just snowballs because that person, they may have one question and then two weeks later it's now segued into 2, 3, 4, 5, and six. And before you know it, they have this whole slew. Things they don't understand, or maybe they're messing up some of your processes, not because they don't want to do it the right way, but because they just don't know and they don't feel comfortable asking. But yeah, it's so basic. It does not, and it also doesn't have to take a lot of time. That's the other thing. As leaders, we don't have a lot of time, but if you can take a few moments, even once an hour, figure out how you can bring clarity to someone else's day, it really alleviates a lot. From your plate and it really helps them to feel better about their day to day. And the other thing that you said that I really like is it was an eye-opening experience to realize not everyone felt the same vigor that I did about my job. Not that I felt that vigor every moment of every day, but the reality is I had to figure out pretty quickly that I had to meet people where they are, In their journey. Because the majority of people were not on my boat. Whatever boat that looked like. Maybe I was on my own island at some points, and that's okay. I can accept that. But my day-to-day also got better when I realized I needed to meet people where they are. And I was on a better understanding just with them in general when I knew what they were coming for. some were coming for the residents, some were coming from the interactions from their peers. Some just wanted the paycheck, which is okay too. but yeah, that was the other alleviating factor was just accepting people where they're at in their journey for why they're working with you.
Erin:Yeah. You can't lead people if you are not where they are. You can be walking and you can turn around like, Hey everybody, this is where we're going, or We're on this bus and nobody's on the bus because. you weren't even where they were. You know what I mean? I talk a lot about control based leadership, management based leadership and influence based leadership, and there is a huge difference when you control everything. You can get a lot of doers If they have the right attitude, but you're not gonna get a lot of leaders who are going to alleviate some of those big concerns. and I recently just to a podcast where it was all about the power of questions. And if you are going to go where people are, you have to. Figure out where they are. And by doing that is by asking questions. And in that growth environment that you created, because you were able to identify shame. And I want people to understand something inside of a community in my life, shame was a huge barrier for me. Huge. I didn't realize that until three years ago. So your most defensive person, your most obstinate person, your most defiant person, those people have great hearts that are trapped underneath a lot of shame. And a lot of disappointment and a lot of fear of doing exactly what you said, disappointing you, or not being vulnerable enough to say, I don't know. If you can create the environment that says. Ask away. No question is a stupid question. Your responses can actually mirror that Then you're going to see growth happen over time. Yes. obviously you saw it, right?
Malinda:Yes, I definitely saw growth, especially just people feeling empowered. I am the type of leader that I always thought it was great if people wanted to stay and work with me for the direct trajectory of their career. But I guess my goal always was and still is, my goal is for people to feel like they can grow and spread their wings and go do whatever it is that they feel like they want to tackle next. And so you're right by asking the right questions and giving them the right tools to be successful and creating that psychologically safe environment, people feel like they can be their optimal self and that, but it does take time. this is a daily concerted effort. There's really no quick fix to any of this And I had to learn a lot of this the hard way. by just, at times I probably was. Too controlling or maybe I was too lax. while you're trying to find that happy medium as a leader, your team grows through those pains with you. But just having, creating that environment really makes people just wanna stay even on the tough days. They don't wanna flee during the difficult moments in long-term care because they feel like you are there to support them on their journey, not only just as a professional, but just as an individual. And I think that really says a lot. we saw success in that model because we. Realized we saw leaders as the people, that they were not just the leader that was coming to work doing their management job or the CNA, doing their CNA job and then going home. So once we started to recognize that humility piece of it too, and giving people the tools that they needed, it really changed the culture for the better.
Erin:Did you say, let me make sure I heard this right, that you. Wanted to be like a growth catalyst for people that would not even be there long term. But to teach the skills that could get them where they wanted to go in the next chapter of their life. Like you literally had that mindset.
Malinda:And I read a book, I think it was called The Dream Manager, if I remember, is by Matthew Kelly. I had one of my regionals give it to me one time, and it really stuck with me and I didn't realize I was that until much later on in my career again. But as much as I wanted people to stay with me, I always wanted them to be where they wanted to be. And so even if our organization outside of the community, I had a plan operations manager and he wanted to go be a regional, but there was just never going to be an opening in our community or for our company. There just never was going to be, and it took him a while to come to that realization. And I had since left, but he had messaged me about three months ago and said, I finally took the plunge and I went, became a regional in another. company I didn't ever foresee him leaving, but he had said, it's a lot of the tools that you've given me, just the confidence to take the plunge. And that is what made me the happiest, being a leader was watching other people do better. I was never really that worried about how well Melinda was doing it was I just got enjoyment seeing other people. Move on and for various things, CNAs that, I had a very, diverse population that worked for me. I would see, individuals come here that, English may have been their fourth or fifth language, and then they'd come to me a year or two later and say, I wanna go to nursing school to see those people go through nursing school and then someone end up at the hospital, someone end up in clinic, some went back home to do things. It was just so fulfilling to watch them become that person they wanted to be. Obviously I always wanted them selfishly to stay with me if we could make that work, but I just wanted them to be happy ultimately. And that's what I think I realized, helped to keep my cup full, on the really tough days and especially before I had discovered that I was on my. That I was in the burnout realm. it took me a while to realize that's where I was and that I was heading in that direction. But what really kept me grounded and probably kept me as an administrator, especially the last few years, was seeing people succeed in whatever area it was they wanted to be in.
Erin:Yeah, because that's a different mindset than A control based leader who won't invest in people because they want them to stay. Yeah. But that doesn't build a growth culture that keeps you very busy. it keeps you the center of the story and you certainly don't want to be the center of the story all the time. Because that is very challenging, and it's similar to mine, like I wanted to be the springboard for somebody's platform like. If you were a CNA and you wanted to be a nurse, I just want you to know that you can still work here and you're gonna get a lot of experience here that most nurses in nursing school are not gonna have. one of the proudest success stories is we had a caregiver. who became an LPN, and then she was able to graduate to be an LPN at the community. And then she was in school to be her rn. And then she was able to assume an RN position at the community. And then she was going to school to be a nurse practitioner. Wow. And she had the opportunity to, at some point come back and. B, like a medical director of the community at some point. that was a possibility for sometime down the future, depending on her path. But how amazing is that? Because you know that one person Yeah. Has a lot of insights from many different perspectives. Because of how she started, and it's pretty powerful. It's, that's a pretty powerful journey. And then to not even know what seeds you planted in people that are doing professionally, something amazing now that you're not even aware of. Yes.'cause you wanted, you had an intentionality behind saying, I'm going to invest in people and I know they might not stay.
Malinda:Yes. And. The reality is when you are in the middle of being that control based leader, you're inadvertently crippling people and making them dependent on you. And it's exhausting when you become, when you are that type of leader. Oftentimes people, some people I think do it. Intentionally and others, I think it's not intentional. They're just scared to let go, and then the building suffers for it, or the community suffers for it. So they might have great intentions, but it's just poor execution. but once you can realize that, honestly, I think I always wanted a leader like that for me, and I don't think I ever really, I had it to some degree, but never fully the way that I hoped. So I wanted to morph into what I was always searching for, honestly. Yeah.
Erin:Yeah. The term psychological safety, I feel is like a buzzword. But think about your career.'cause the, for those of you who are listening, more than likely you work inside senior living. And think about the people who have caused problems during surveys or during family conflict, within the community. they're upset about something and they don't know what to do and they make the situation worse. That is no psychological safety, and you are reaping the benefits of no psychological safety at that moment. But if you create psychological safety where that caregiver, that maintenance person, that server, they know that it's okay to say, I don't know. Yeah. And they know that it's okay to say. I will go find the answer and be right back. Yes. You have just deescalated something that could have gotten really big.
Malinda:Yes.
Erin:And that is psychological safety because they know it's okay to say, I don't know. As long as they have appropriate action and follow up afterwards.
Malinda:100%. And it was also, even if it went so far as during a survey, someone messes up. Yes. it's that relationship, that humility that the surveyor and all of us there we're all just human trying to do what's right for the people that are living in that community. And if your team member comes to you and says, I messed up. How you react as a leader can really make or break that person, for their current self and their future self because you may make them more leery to go and approach, their future leaders. Outside of you if you scare them and make them feel that shame. but yeah, psychological safety is such a buzzword. You're right, but it's the actual humanness of the job that we are injecting back in that gives people the okay to say, I don't know, or to say, I messed up. How can I correct it? And that's what's important in our day to day.
Erin:Yeah. I think to sum up this section of the podcast. A really good summary is assuming knowledge creates confusion and teaching the basics builds capacity. Yes. Like if you could create a one liner for that, that's it.
Malinda:We're not gonna get better than that.
Erin:I really don't think we would. Point number two that you are uniquely qualified to talk about here is the tiers of work, right? It's really about prioritization. Which I think gets lost because we are constantly, if we're controlling everything, there is no tier. Everything is important. I heard on Instagram recently, I thought this was really cool. It caught my ear. My attention is the calendar is not for. Prioritizing your responsibilities. Hold on, lemme think about this for a minute. It's prioritizing your, gosh, what did it say? It's prioritizing like what you want out of your life, right? We assume you ranking everything from most important to least important. But I think it's, you know, as two sufferers of burnout. I think for me, I will speak. For me, I didn't prioritize what was energy giving to me. What was important from a personal standpoint, I didn't prioritize my growth, I didn't prioritize my mental health. all of that was on at the bottom of everything else that I felt was more important Your calendar should start with prioritizing what makes you a better you. And if you don't understand the value of that, you don't understand the value of your team because the value of your team. I like to say that a community is just a community until a good leader steps in and makes it a great place to live and work. But a good leader can lose themselves in not understanding. The prioritization of staying a good leader, of being a good leader because everything else becomes more important. So not everything is tier one, and if everything feels urgent, nothing is strategic, there's no intentionality to it. And just for an example, this is something that I did, I got better at, but my husband really stinks at right now. a vacation. How many times, Did I say, I'm not gonna plan this until I know that everything is going good in the community. and then I know that I can walk away. And then the week that you wanted comes up and somebody's sick or somebody's something and you didn't buy anything. It's like you have to prioritize. That vacation six months in advance, you have to buy the cruise things. And so no matter what happens, you say, I can't get out of it. That's a prioritization of how to keep you sane first. Yes. Anyways, I'm done. Melinda, take the floor.
Malinda:My mind races when you say what you just did because I don't know about you, but I always had to take my work phone with me on vacations.
Erin:Yeah.
Malinda:And that was a stark reality when I left actively working as an executive director was. For a very long time. I was never just myself. I was never just Melinda. I was always Melinda, the administrator that's on call. And yes, I had people in place that would handle things for me, but you can never be just yourself. And that's where I failed, to find boundaries that made sense for me. And I always prioritized everyone else's needs. Above my own because I so badly wanted everyone, including residents, family members, my team, I wanted everyone to have a good, positive working experience. but I forgot to remember myself in that equation and completely lost myself. I don't know if you've ever watched a man on the inside, but yeah. Executive director D when she would put her headphones on and land at her desk, that was me. But I would turn the lights off too, because I was so overstimulated by everyone needing something from me. I'm like the parent that had, triplets that needed something all at once. That's what I felt like, and it wasn't even necessarily them asking because they didn't know how to do their job. It was just because I had created such close relationships with people constantly were needing or wanting to talk with me for about various things, and that was both a blessing and a curse because in the midst of all of it, I still had to figure out how to get my work done. So I love this quote. It's like trying to run a marathon at a sprint pace every single day. That sums up, especially the last few years of my life Yes. In senior living. And I look back, it honestly took me six to nine months to decompress.
Erin:Yeah.
Malinda:And just breathe. because when you were just constantly running on such high levels of cortisol for years in a row, it really takes a lot out of a person. Yes. And but in the midst of it, I had figured out a process that really worked for me. And I, this all stemmed because, I'd say midway through my career, I was having some car work done and I remember my husband was dropping me off at work and he was like, what doesn't you do all day? And I said, that's a very loaded question. I don't think you want me to that how dare you asked. I don't think you wanna know, nor would you probably understand. And I don't mean that in a condescending way, but I don't think you would even know. but I said essentially, I'll just give you in a nutshell, my survival guide. And I broke different tasks into different tiers based off of how much leeway I knew. Or severity? so tier one, I absolutely could not leave the building that day. I knew that I could not leave until those things were done. So for example, like if I had to turn in a self-report to the state or, I had a family complaint, I knew I needed to deal with that in that day. or if we needed to terminate or get someone hired in the system, like those were urgent matters that I knew I couldn't leave without. and then there's that middle tier of I got a few days to figure this out. maybe that was something to do with billing or, something admission related, something that is not so urgent that you can't tackle it, in a day or two. And then there was that like. Third tier of this sounds great. And if I actually get a couple of hours to myself to breathe, maybe I'll work on my emergency preparedness plan, or maybe I will come up with my team with a new Oppy project. Something along those lines. But, at the beginning of your career and even up until the middle of it, everything felt like a sprint. And then, during the pandemic. It was even more of a sprint because you had all these added layers of requirement, but yet still had to keep everyone safe and get everything done, and then figure out how to keep yourself sane in the midst of all of it. so I had to create this system. I, it happened organically. It's not like I stole it from anyone. I just realized that's how I had learned to cope. Was creating this internal process, but then I actually created a chart for myself and it helped to keep me on track because I'm a visual learner and I need to see for my own sense of peace and for my own satisfaction, I like to see things crossed off a list, makes me feel like I've accomplished something. No matter how small the task, it still made me feel good inside. So that tier system was how I explained it to'em. I have on fire, can't leave. there's maybe just we're at a bonfire level and now, this is smoldering down here. I can deal with the ashes later, and he, that made sense to him. And then I thought, that's really a helpful tool probably for new administrators or people that dunno how to prioritize or they're new in the role, or maybe, new to a company. it just helped me to prioritize. How to survive my day to day, especially in those really taxing times before I realized how burned out I was. It helped me to stay in the role longer, honestly.
Erin:Yeah. especially for a new executive director or a new director of nursing, honestly. you gotta do what only you can do first. That's like tier one man. Yeah. Stop giving tier two, tier three stuff. That's should be tier one because what only you can do has to be done by you. So if you can get that done first, then everything else will be prioritized based on urgency. Sure. But if you say what's required to be done by you for last. What are you giving it? What is your boss gonna see? What is the home office gonna see? What are your families gonna see? and your managers are living it up because Yeah. you're doing it all for them. When you should be doing what's, can only be done by you. They should be doing what can only be done by them, in a perfect world scenario first, and then all of a sudden we're available to the people that need us to help solve their problems.
Malinda:Yeah, I agree. And you did it, you said it in such a palatable way. honestly, it goes back to prioritizing your own sense of wellbeing. Yes. Which also in turn helps your team and the community. That's where I got lost in that. I got lost in that. And it's hard to find your way out of it or dig yourself back out of it when you're in the midst of it. But looking in now, that's exactly what needs to occur. If you can prioritize your own work, everything kind of falls into place because everyone can then tackle what they're responsible for in their sphere of influence. Yeah.
Erin:As we wrap up this episode for the burned out leaders and the new leaders coming in, what would you say for the exhausted, overwhelmed, and doesn't know where to begin, leader, based on our conversation today and now your hindsight viewpoint? What would be the top advice to Start their mindset shift for the two things that we talked about today, which is prioritizing the tiers the most appropriate way. And to stop assuming that people know what they don't know, what would be your first coaching step to them?
Malinda:My first coaching step would be take it back to the basics. Because honestly, the basics are going to help you feel connected, authentically and emotionally with your team and your residents. So those quick checkpoints of making sure people have the tools they need, getting to know them on a more personal level, those things matter. Those are the actual, heart and soul of what we do day to day, but then also taking it back to the basics on what tasks you can and can't control in a day. And getting what is in your sphere of influence to get done. And making sure your team, they know what they need to complete, can really keep you off of that trajectory of feeling overwhelmed, burned out, lost all of that. So really. If I could sum it up, looking back on my 10 year career, taking it back to the basics and keeping it there, it does not have to be complex and it helps to keep the humanness in the community and everything running pretty efficiently. Honestly, that would be my parting words,
Erin:absolutely simple is not easy. And I think that we make things complicated because we want to look smart And capable. The more simple it is, the smarter it actually is. I didn't realize that to some degree you were proud that you worked 14 hours, three days in a row. And then, you wore this. Farmer that said, I'm working all the time. I'm kicking butt and taking names and like you didn't realize, like that's not success. The simpler you can make it, the more basic that you can keep things at the fundamentals in any kind of sports, that is where the team with the best fundamentals will win.
Malinda:Yes, absolutely.
Erin:if people want to get to know you more And figure out how to work with you, where do you like to send them?
Malinda:So I have a website, melinda sice.com. Very simple. I'm also a LinkedIn junkie, so if you look me up on LinkedIn, Melinda Sice is my name on LinkedIn and I am quite active on LinkedIn. So those would be the two best ways to get ahold of me, see me on my website or go find me on LinkedIn.
Erin:Yes. Thank you for sharing this. the frameworks, the back to the basics. I hope this message gets out to the people who needs to hear it. And if you are saying that's not right, don't knock it until you try it. Because it can certainly change things for sure. Yes. All right. Thank you for today. listeners, thank you for your time. Go check out Melinda's website and as always, aspire for more for you because when you own your story, you can create your future. Thank you so much.
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