The Hidden Power of Hard Talks with Jeannie Frazier

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Transcript

Erin: 0:35

What if the culture of your team isn't defined by the big retreats or the company's values on the wall, but by the conversations that you are avoiding? Today, I'm joined by Jeannie Frazier, an award-winning leadership and learning expert who has spent over two decades helping organizations across industries, not just train their teams, but transform how they communicate. From her time at Franklin Covey, where she trained on world renowned frameworks like the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, my favorite to launching her own successful consulting business. Jeannie has developed a reputation for helping leaders do the hardest thing. Well have the conversations that matter the most. We are going to dive into why avoiding hard conversations might be the very thing that's holding you back, why your emotional bank account may be overdrawn, and how to rebuild trust before you need it, which is my favorite topic. And how to help your team find their voice, especially when the stakes are high. I am excited to dive into this episode to share you principles like seek first to understand and think win-win can radically improve the way that you lead conversations, especially in emotionally driven charged environments like senior living. So grab a notepad, open up your notes app. And let's begin this conversation. Hi, Jeannie. Welcome. Hey, how are you? Thank you for having me. I am so excited to dive into this episode with you. So tell us, tell the, tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

Jeannie: 2:19

Yeah. So my love and passion is around learning and development, but like most people, it wasn't my original plan. I double majored in college, marketing and management. And then upon graduation, I began working for the Union Pacific Railroad. So I was in transportation and logistics, and I started my career working in their direct marketing center where I managed. Hundreds of small accounts. And then from there I was selected to be a part of their management development program. And in both of those roles, I was exposed to, so many, great training opportunities. And during that time, I just was in awe of the talented facilitators at Union Pacific had, and I enjoyed all of the. Incredible content that I was exposed to. I mean, I could go on and on about all the great opportunities that were provided to me and right then and there, I told myself, Hey. That is what I wanna do someday. And it took me a while to get there, but the journey was worth it. And so my entry point into this industry is when I began working for Achieve Global. Still to this day, it was the best company I ever worked for with the most supportive. Amazing culture and I was there for 11 years and I worked with clients all across our country on their employee development needs, anywhere from sales training, leadership development, customer service, what have you. And when I was there, I just felt like I found my place. I absolutely loved it, but we've all been around long enough to know that, good things eventually come to an end. That is when, achieve Global was purchased by Miller Hyman and then purchased by Korn Ferry. That is when I moved on to working for a couple of other, training companies and then settled in at Franklin Covey before I started my own company. And why do I do what I do? This field learning and development matters so much to me. I've got 23 years of experience. I've been in this industry and, during that time I've gained just a great amount of respect for all L and d professionals and practitioners. They have a challenging job, that people outside of l and d do not understand. The level of detail that goes into one single training class is incredible. And overall, it's a very hard job, especially getting buy-in from leaders. And the employees to take that time out and attend some of the great learning opportunities that we're providing to them. Their day job always takes precedence. So that's always a challenge there. And what, irritates or irks me the most is when times get tough with the economy. L and d is typically the first to get their budget cut or the first to get their team members cut. And all I can say is big mistake. It irritates me. But I'm such a big advocate for l and d and the work that we do matters. Because if you think about it, when it's done right, it positively impacts the employee, their team, the organization, the clients, their culture. If you look at it from an executive perspective, we help move the metrics that they look at, that matter to them in the right direction, such as retention, number of promotions, employee engagement, and of course probably their favorite metric revenue. So that's my why, and that's how I kind of got to where I am today.

Erin: 5:30

Yeah, there's so much there because I want to say just. Because I am doing a lot of trainings and a lot of presentations, a, I just wanna validate how much work goes into this. If you really want to add value to people's lives, if you really want to plant the seeds for people to grow, there's a lot of work that goes into creating. Presentations, trainings, facilitations to really add value to people. I never appreciated it, and I just want you to know, like I sit in the struggle bus every time I create something because is it good enough? Is it this, is it that I watch all these people and how they do it, and then when I'm doing something similar to what they're doing, I feel like it's not any good. But then other people, you know, like I want somebody to tell me exactly how to do it, to make it good. And that just doesn't exist.

Jeannie: 6:33

Yeah. it's an ongoing experiment. Honestly. when I went out on my own, I wanted to pride myself on tailoring everything to the client and to their audience. And that's time consuming at times, but it's so worth it. I don't wanna offer something off the shelf with generic skills and say, Hey, this will work for you. It's about having those conversations with your clients, putting together that outline, getting their feedback, Hey, what do you like, what should I omit? What am I missing? And then it all comes together.

Erin: 6:59

Yeah. And, and working inside senior living. One company that I worked with did, and it was very much, it wasn't necessarily like about growth, but it was about all the trainings that you're required to have, right? Yes. Yes. One of the things that I think. We don't pay enough attention to, which I know that you do because of the experience that you've had, is the word growth. And there, I, for a long time I made the mistake where there's professional growth and there's personal growth, and I was under the, lie that professional growth was more important than personal growth until. Professional growth gets too high, and personal growth stays too low, and this tension in between creates havoc and chaos in one's life. If you've been listening long enough, you understand that that was my biggest hurdle in life. But when we make, and this is what I strive to do when we make personal growth intentional in the professional growth. All of a sudden we create better human beings, which are better leaders, better directors, better caregivers, and that's my goal. Is that how you incorporate it in your trainings and facilitations?

Jeannie: 8:23

Yeah, I mean you need that balance. I completely agree with you on that, Erin, the personal and professional, they both go hand in hand and you can't have them out of sync. And what I, so primarily what I offer is soft skills. I know a lot of people don't like that term. Essential skills, people skills, what have you. That's what I primarily offer for employees and leaders those soft skills are applicable in your professional and your personal life. It's applicable anytime you interact with a human being. And so, that's another reason why I love this industry so much. Everything that, I'm able to provide my clients, it's useful in all aspects of their life. And, you know, you're making an impact. So I completely agree with that balance.

Erin: 9:04

I like the term essential skills. I like soft skills too, but the only reason why they're soft is because you can't. Manage them like you can the metric piece to it. I really like the term essential skills because in the world that we live in today, they are essential

Jeannie: 9:20

absolutely and they're more important than ever with our girlfriend ai. So yes,

Erin: 9:26

yes, it's true. And I think that's probably why you and I were talking before that you're getting a lot of requests for how to have hard conversations. Yes. Like, and I've heard a lot of other people talking about how that seems to be something that's very important now, and I think a lot of the burnout that we're seeing inside of senior living, you know, and somewhat it played a role in mine, but not too specifically, but it is avoiding the hard conversations.

Jeannie: 9:56

You

Erin: 9:56

know, when we avoid the hard conversations. We just take on more work, we just get frustrated. We get resentful and we start churning that story inside of us, and then eventually all that junk has to come out. Yes. And normally it's not in a very professional way.

Jeannie: 10:16

I love my statistics. Anyone that has joined, whether it be my networking group session or one of my learning sessions, I always open, whatever topic it may be with statistics, and so I've got one for you. It's from Forbes currently, right now, 70% of employees are avoiding difficult conversations at work. To me, that's one of the most prevalent challenges out there when it comes to these conversations because you. We're all guilty. Deep down, you hope the situation will just go away, or maybe as time passes, I'll either work up the courage to have the conversation or the situation will go away. The longer you put off that conversation though, as you said, Erin, the more those feelings and they're typically not positive feelings, the more those feelings just linger. I always compare it to a pressure cooker. You can only have so much and then all of a sudden you're just gonna get ready to burst. And that is not good for. Either party.

Erin: 11:08

No. It really isn't. And I think it shines horribly on the leader. Yeah. When they allow it to get to that point, and the person who planted, didn't do the work or didn't do what they were supposed to do, they become the victim.

Jeannie: 11:27

Yes.

Erin: 11:27

Unfortunately.

Jeannie: 11:28

Yep.

Erin: 11:28

Because. You just let it out on somebody. You know what I mean? And I think it's the short term discomfort that we're scared of, and we don't even realize the long term destruction that it's going to give you.

Jeannie: 11:46

Yep.

Erin: 11:47

Yeah,

Jeannie: 11:47

no, I completely agree. The closer you can address the situation in the actual moment that it happened, the better. Even though it's hard and we all need to take that personal time out. We all need to take that deep breath and put some preparation into it because these are conversations you just can't go wing. As long as you are somewhat prepared. Take that time out, like I said, and have it, if you could get it done within the day or the week that it happened, both sides will feel so much better. Yes. Honestly, it's supposed to be a collaborative conversation and if you have it in the moment or close to that time, both parties can exhale and be like, okay, we got that over with it was productive, we're collaborative, we're moving forward.

Erin: 12:27

Yes. Okay. Do you have a framework or a process that you recommend when preparing for one of these hard conversations? Can you gimme something that I can walk through?

Jeannie: 12:39

Absolutely. For Harvard Business Review, 85% of people actually do take that time out to prepare for these conversations, which I think is. Wonderful.'cause I mentioned earlier, um, you just can't wing it. Oh my gosh. It'll go south so fast. It's not even funny. So what I find interesting from the research is one of the most important factors to consider in your preparation is not only when you should have that conversation, but if you should have that conversation. And so what I like to tell my clients, there are six key questions I like for them to ask themselves to determine is this worth? Having that talk. And so the first one is, is the, impact of the, issue serious enough that I need to address it? Two, what will be the impact on me, the other person in my organization, if. it's addressed three, If I say nothing, will it be an obstacle to performance or job satisfaction, not only for you, but for others. And then number four is also a favorite of mine. Will this still matter in a month or two? So where are we at? July? Fast forward to after the Labor Day holiday. Think about where you would be, visualize yourself, think about will, will that issue still be lingering? If it's a yes, then absolutely move forward with that conversation. Uh, number five, is there something else in my life that might be making this issue bigger than it actually is? And we all can relate to it. We all have personal lives, we all have stuff going on. All the time. And unfortunately we carry a lot of that into our professional lives. If that's outta balance and you've got a lot of stuff personally going on that's weighing heavily on you think about the impact that it's having on this particular issue. And then finally, is the conversation worth the personal risk it might involve? Mm-hmm. So those are just some key things to think about. And so after you've taken the time out and thought through those, if you've determined that, hey. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's time to move forward with this conversation. Um, I then pose a few additional questions to help them prepare, whether you get it out on paper or just think through it. And so, um, one is just cut to the chase. What is the issue that you need to raise? Two is what has happened up to this point. You know, why are you having that conversation? Three, this, this ties back to, to the good old seven habits. What is my end in mind? So think about after this conversation has concluded. What do you expect to have happened? What is your end in mind? What do you wanna see happen? Four is how do you anticipate the other person to react? And that's very important because a lot of times these difficult conversations are about topics that are very important to either you, the other person or both, and that can help fuel emotions. And so really think about that person. Hopefully you know them well enough to know their demeanor, their personality, and if you do anticipate. Things getting heated or a little bit emotional. Go into that and think about what is your plan going to be to help overcome that or help them overcome that. And then finally, this also ties into the seven habits. What goals do we share? So this is not a me, me, me conversation. This is a collaborative conversation. You want it to be a win-win for both parties. You want them to walk away feeling good as you do yourself.

Erin: 15:54

Think with the end in mind, but isn't that like what we should do all the time?

Jeannie: 15:59

Oh, absolutely. Think with

Erin: 16:00

the end in mind, not in the moment. Because in the moment all judgment is cloudy.

Jeannie: 16:08

I would agree.

Erin: 16:09

Okay. A lot is a lot of leaders are overextended, especially inside of a community and. Everything that you gave us just in that last three minutes is very valuable. I can see the value in that, but I'm a leader who's overextended, who's tired, who's already allowed a level of resentment that is probably here. Sure. I think my question is. How do I make that level of proactiveness and intentionality worth it? You know what I mean? Because I'm ready, I am ready to charge, and I'm ready to let it all out. Maybe think with the end in mind is the answer there, but how can we use this moment? That framework, those questions. Because as an overextended leader, maybe I don't understand how important questions are. Sure. They are very important. What is the value of slowing things down and asking those questions.

Jeannie: 17:18

Yeah, so I can really relate to this. The last week in June, I spent some time, with a senior living organization. I've been, working on a large project for them, and, it's not my first time I've been there and I always leave their facility, just with the utmost respect and gratitude for the employees I encountered. All sorts of different levels, all sorts of different employees. They're just such special people that work in that industry. the ones on the floor, especially running here, there everywhere, you know, they're fatigued, you know, at times they're frustrated. You know, if you're a CNA and somebody. Calls in sick for their shift, and now you've got all these extra rooms you also have to manage. It gets frustrating at times. And so I love what you said, Erin. How do you pause? How do you kind of take that deep breath? I'm a big believer in simply pausing before you respond and a short pause, before you respond can help you. Reply accordingly, instead of react. There's a huge difference between responding and reacting. You can really accomplish that by some simple things just kind of. You know, I did this before our podcast. I, I just took a deep breath and it just relaxes you. You can kind of take a step back and count to three in your head. Sometimes it seems like it's three minutes. Sometimes it, it seems like it's three seconds, but just that simple pause can kind of help you regroup in your mind and then. If you need to, just excuse yourself. So I'm looking, so for example, maybe you're in the middle of a conversation. It's not going in the right direction. You could say, Hey, let's both take a quick timeout. Let's reconvene at 11. That way you give both parties a chance to kind of take that breather, and, and take that time out to really gather their thoughts. I'm also a big believer in, doing an emotional temperature check of your own. Self-awareness is essential in preventing emotional spillover. So a key question I like to pose to people and to have them ask themselves is, Hey, am I responding to the person or to my own stress right now? That kind of ties back to those preparation questions.

Erin: 19:22

A self-awareness is so key and I think it's missing in so much, and I am doing a presentation actually this week where I'm diving into reacting versus responding, and it really is a choice. Yes, it is. Yep. We think that we don't have a choice because we're impulsive and we're tired and we're overextending. And what you're explaining so simplistically and so expertly, is you do have a choice. You have a choice to pause, you have a choice. When you feel that trigger being squeezed, that is your cue to pause. Because you're, you're going to be reacting to the situation, but it's gonna feel like to the person you're reacting to, the person.

Jeannie: 20:12

Reacting, sometimes, leads to regret. Yes.

Erin: 20:17

Yeah. So true. It's so true. Okay, I want to switch to your experience inside Franklin Covey, because I am a huge fan of, the Seven Habits. Inside the communities, executive directors and nursing directors or even, any director who is responsible for training, people sure are responsible for monthly in-services and maybe even more frequently than that, but most states have. Required trainings that they have to do. What are some like beginner tips to medium experience tips of how to get your point across for people to understand it, even when you're not a professional speaker or presenter.

Jeannie: 21:09

Yeah, that's a really good question. Again, taking that pause and preparing. Yeah. And sometimes you can't do that when you're in the moment, but you still can pause in the moment. And think about, how you should truly respond what you need to say. And keep it succinct. And then allow the other person to start asking you more questions. And that gives you a little bit more time back on your side to where if you kind of say your piece and don't go on and on forever, just keep it succinct and then kind of hit the tennis ball back to their side of the court and ask for their response, or ask for their reaction. Ask if they have any questions and then that can help, guide the conversation in the moment.

Erin: 21:50

In regards to training, like for monthly in services, do you find that when the leader teaches. Or when the leader kind of facilitates those monthly inservices, you know, like your all staff meetings and everything. Do you find that when the leader teaches and then asks questions and gets feedback, or when the leader just stands up there and presents which one is better for the audience and. Retention of the information.

Jeannie: 22:21

Yeah. It should never be a monologue. The two-way conversation, is essential, especially in the senior living communities. There's just so many things that they're carrying with them into those meetings that could possibly come out in that training session. You just never know. If you don't allow them that opportunity to you know, maybe it's a particular skill on difficult conversations and maybe a CNA would say, Hey, had a tough one with a family the other day. I'd like to share the situation with you. I think I could have done this differently. What do you suggest? So being a leader, yes, you've gotta have your teaching moments and that's where it's a little bit one way, but always pause and ask for questions or you could do something as simple as posing a question on a slide and have, you know, if they're set up in small table groups, have'em discuss at their table and then go around and take. The best idea from each table. But it has gotta be collaborative. It's gotta be interactive or you're gonna lose them. the more engaging you can make it and the more you can allow them to have a voice in the session, all the better.

Erin: 23:19

It's very true. I have, I. Seeing that and learning and and being investing. In my own speaking, I just wanted to say like we talk about the pause. But the pause is a little uncomfortable, especially when you're uncomfortable, especially when you're up on the stage, like, or not even on the stage or the top of the room and you're asking a question and there's silence and you're just standing up there and nobody's sharing or. You are just scared to pause. Yes, because there's power in the pause. And so if you just pause, it's like, oh my God, what do I do? Nobody's talking, what do I do? Ah, and then sometimes you lose control of the room too, because people just wanna talk and talk and talk. But there's value in that too, if you can tie it all together.

Jeannie: 24:15

Yeah, it, oh my gosh, I've been in that situation before. Especially in the virtual world. If you're doing virtual training and you have half the folks with their camera on and half with the camera off, we have no idea what they're doing when that camera's off. So when you do that pause, it can seem like an eternity. But if you think about it sometimes, whatever question you're posing. Might put them on the spot. And what I mean by that, maybe it's a very good question. That's very intriguing. And they might need that pause and that moment to let it register in their head and think about it. Um, we feel, or I should speak for myself on this, I feel pressured at times because everything is like rush, rush, rush, get it done fast in the moment. Let's move on, let's move on, let's move on. But there's sometimes you do have to take that pause and let people digest the information and think about it more, then they can come back and have an answer. Sometimes you pause and they're still just looking like deer in headlights or very, very quiet. And that's okay. Maybe in the moment, rephrase the question or you answer it yourself, and that could get the ball rolling with some great discussion.

Erin: 25:18

Yeah, I heard one last point on the pause here, but this made perfect sense to me. If we don't pause. And even in our own, speaking, we're going to fill the time with filler words.

Jeannie: 25:39

Yes.

Erin: 25:39

And so if you were leading a training session in your community, you're the executive director, you're the director of nursing or whatever, and you're not comfortable with the pause, or even when you're thinking, you don't want people to know that you're thinking. And so you wanna fill the pause or you fill the pause with, yeah. That pause just took all your credibility away.

Jeannie: 25:57

Yeah.

Erin: 25:58

Because you filled it with filler words.

Jeannie: 26:01

Yep.

Erin: 26:02

Whereas if it was just silence, you are creating anticipation, and all of a sudden you've got people's attention and you have to be comfortable with that.

Jeannie: 26:14

Yep. and I think that goes back to preparation and practice as a leader, as a facilitator, when you are putting together your training session and you're gonna pose those questions. Practice it and practice that pause. And even if you have your phone next to you and you set a timer for five seconds, which again can seem like an eternity if you practice and get in the comfort of that, it won't be so daunting when you're in the moment. Yeah.

Erin: 26:41

Okay, perfect segue because there is something that I trained every year in January when I was inside of the community, I trained on the emotional bank account every year. Every year in January, the start of the year, I got the emotional bank account training out and started talking about it. It was and is still a huge part of my life. The beginning of my leadership career as an executive director, I was very, very young. I had never managed anyone, and when I got promoted. There was a big transition and then I didn't from a regional perspective, and I didn't have anyone for six months, and that was a very challenging time for me. The first book I read was Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and there are lots of things about that book that take away, but the two top things, the two top things were the emotional bank account and think win-win. Everything I did inside of a community was always through the lens of the emotional bank account and think win-win, even in a negative situation where if a resident had to move out I had to figure out what the win was. I had to find out what a win-win was, and this is where those essential soft skills are really important because there's not a hard win when somebody has to move out.

Jeannie: 28:09

There is

Erin: 28:09

not a hard win, but there are small emotional wins that someone like me can give in those hard times, and that is where the win-win quadrant comes in, which has been a huge component of my success. Fast forward to where my kids are in school and they're elementary school. It is a seven Habits Leadership school.

Jeannie: 28:34

Ah, leader.

Erin: 28:34

Love it. And it's a public school. It's not even a private school, but there's the seven habits, which are now eight habits. When it's sharpen the saw that I think is the, or find your voice. Find, yep. That's the, that's the new one. And so every time I go in there, I see the seven habits. You know, the power of yet, like I walk in the school and I'm just like, man, this is so inspiring. You know? And my kids are, you know, I'm talking to my kids about think with the end in mind, or you know, is this proactive or is this reactive? so the fact that I even get to have this conversation with you is really exciting to me. Oh, thank you. So you are an expert in this because you've trained on it for so long.

Jeannie: 29:17

Yeah. With the school situation. So my daughter is a competitive swimmer and she swam for a club. Club for most of her career. And then now she's on the high school swim team. But back in our club days, we would swim in different, schools across the typically Nebraska, Iowa area and we were in Iowa and we walk into this high school, and this is literally, I'm not kidding you, within the first month that I started at Franklin Covey and I walk in and it was a seven habits school and I saw all the seven habits posted on the wall. And I remember I took a picture of it and I put it on LinkedIn. I was like, so. Proud and so inspired to see that. Seven Habits, I love that it's so prevalent, not only in the workplace, but we're, you know, they start'em young at Franklin Cubby get that, they'll get those timeless principles in their hands at a young age. Because seven habits, some of it may seem like very common sense to you, however, you ask yourself, is it common practice? And the answer is typically no. It's something I first was exposed to when I was in college and was asked to read the book. Fast forward many years when I landed at Franklin Covey and we had the CHRO of the company come in and teach it because he was so passionate about the seven habits, we spent two full days and nobody does that anymore. Two full days and seven habits training and Franklin Cubby, the way I like to describe it, they use the seven habits as their operating system. And that's why, you're onboarding the first two days you go through seven habits because that's just the language they speak and that's how they operate. And it's so prevalent and essential if you. Apply it in the working world, especially in senior living organizations, there's just, so much of the learnings, within that book, is applicable to that world. And, and I'm, I'm digressing, and I know you talked about the emotional bank account, and that's a big part of the seven habits you know, it's really a metaphor for the amount of trust that exists in relationships, especially between a leader and their direct reports. Especially in the world of senior living between, the nurses, the CNAs, and the families and the actual residents. So, the way I like to imagine it is, you know, think of any personal relationship that you have, any human relationship that you have, and you think of it as a bank account. And just like your checking or savings account, you make deposits. You make withdrawals. Those deposits help build trust, build goodwill, and emotional safety. And again, those are three things that are just pillars or nec necessities in the senior living organization. And then on the flip side, when you're making withdraws, that erodes trust. It erodes your connection with the families, with the residents, with your coworkers and your credibility. Much like when we talked earlier, the pausing and using filler words that makes your credibility head south. What I appreciate about the emotional bank account, especially if you tie it back to having these tough conversations, which we all do, no matter what industry you're in, when your account is full, people are more than likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. They're more likely to hear you out, and they're more likely to really engage with you in a constructive manner. And so the more things you can do to add to that bank account, the better. Make regular deposits, things that you can do, consistently show respect to absolutely everyone around you. A big one that I love is listen, without fixing, just be there. Just listen. Let them talk. That's all you need to do. And then another big one, especially as a leader, any commitment you make, make sure you follow through.'cause that's, that's just an instant way to lose credibility.

Erin: 32:43

It's, again, it's common sense, but not common practice, which is really, really important. And honestly, if you are a leader inside of a community or even in the regional director role, sure it is. So important to make this a priority. Simple things about remembering something, writing it down. Everybody uses the same example of writing a thank you note, and sometimes I roll my eyes,

Jeannie: 33:12

other

Erin: 33:13

Yes.

Jeannie: 33:13

I'm a huge, I have a stack next to me. Yes. I write, I, I'm not kidding you. I write out several a day. Just, yeah. It's a lost art. And it's impactful.

Erin: 33:21

It is impactful. Even though people say, you know, oh, you, how many times do you hear that, that it's a lost art? But I actually, I was, the other day, I found notes from residents at my first community and I'm like, oh my God, how thankful I am that I have these, or I think about. I had one regional director who handwrote me notes of what he noticed about me during the la the previous visit. And yes. Did the, pessimist version of me, like, roll my eyes and be like, oh gosh. But did it make an impact inside? Yes, it did. Absolutely it did.

Jeannie: 34:05

Let me guess, you still have those notes, correct? Yes.

Erin: 34:08

And so. Oh, he just did that because everybody says to do thank you notes, but what was written inside of it was very specific.

Jeannie: 34:19

Yep. Love it. I

Erin: 34:20

I'm a fan.

Jeannie: 34:21

You've won me over on that.

Erin: 34:23

Yeah. It's a huge fan. I mean, a huge moment. And so the think win-win, you know, we tie it back to. What we talked about earlier, which is those essential skills, and it's just really a point that I want to drive home because think win-win is thinking with the end in mind is thinking, is adding deposits into the emotional bank account and for all leaders. It doesn't matter if it's in a resident, a family, any of the key stakeholders, an associate there are going to come times where you miss the mark. Yeah. Where you are not the best version of yourself and where we as humans fail some way, you know, or something happens outside of our control and we are faced with a crisis. And the emotional bank account that you did proactively Yep. For years, months, or weeks before becomes your buffer zone. Absolutely. And if we don't handle every tough conversation with thinking, win-win, if you do not be proactive and think with the end in mind. And think about how can I make this a win-win?'cause this is really hard. How do I make this a win-win? And it's not a hard win-win. A soft win-win is still more, almost could be more valuable than walking away with a better outcome than what's possible. anytime I had to have a discussion about a resident moving out and I worked in Alabama, and that conversation happened a lot based on our regs. Whether it was moving from al to memory care, memory care, to skilled, whatever it was, every time I thought about the last time they walked out of our community. How can I end this conversation where I intentionally am leaving, I don't know, making an impact in a positive way, in a really tough conversation,

Jeannie: 36:30

the moving out is probably one of the toughest examples. And exactly what you said, Erin, during their time within the community, as long as you are continually making those deposits, it's gonna build trust with them. They're gonna understand that, you know what, Erin, more than likely this is outta your control. We can only control what we can control. And if you have those. Deposits that are continually building up. Yes, they're probably not gonna be happy. Yes, it's gonna be a tough experience for them, but they know you. They know who you are. They know how you've been up to that point and they're like, you know what, Erin's been great. She, the time that I was here, she's made an incredible experience for me. Mm-hmm. So many times,

Erin: 37:14

yeah. I think we try too hard again, to avoid. Those type of conversations or avoid, hopefully we just can ignore things and they don't and they go away, but they're not, they're just gonna become worse. But if we can literally think emotional, making count in the good times, think win-win all the times, but especially in the hard times, a lot of what is, is frustrating us and making us feel tired and constantly failing will go away. It really does take time. Okay. As we wrap this up, I want you to, leave us with something that you wanna say that maybe we haven't gotten to or something positive patterns that you see, close us out on a high note.

Jeannie: 38:06

Oh, sure thing. So I'm gonna s steal this from Nike. My advice, we talked a lot about difficult conversations. My advice is just to do it. Yeah. If you remember that statistic I shared in the opening, 70% of employees out there are avoiding difficult conversations. But guess what? However, those that actually. Have the courage, take the plunge and have that difficult conversation. 76% of them are satisfied with the outcome. So if you think about that, three quarters of the folks out there that actually go through with the conversations are happy with the outcome. So my best piece of advice, go into that conversation prepared. Go in ensuring it's going to be a two-way collaborative conversation, and you should expect yourself to be a part of that 76%. Absolutely.

Erin: 38:54

People just want respect. People wanna be seen.

Jeannie: 38:57

Yep.

Erin: 38:57

They wanna be heard and they wanna feel valued. And you can do that even in the hard conversations for sure. Very good. Alright, so tell us, how do they get in touch with you if you, if they want to.

Jeannie: 39:09

Oh yeah, absolutely. So, my name's Jeanie Frazier and my company's name is Learning Jeanie. So I had a little play on my name, which has been a lot of fun. Best way to learn more about my services and what I provide, you can go to my website, which is www.learninggenie.com, and Jeanie spelled JEA. NIE. I always welcome conversations even if it's just to pick my brain or run something by me, I always welcome that. And so you can email me at any time at Learning genie@outlook.com.

Erin: 39:41

Thank you for your wisdom today. Really appreciate that.

Jeannie: 39:45

You for this opportunity. You're, you're awesome. This was a lot of fun.

Erin: 39:48

Alright. And as always, for my listeners, aspire for more for you. When you own your story, you can create your future.