The Power of Pauses, Potato Chips and Purposeful Words

Most leaders think they have a content problem. In reality, they have a communication problem.

In this episode of Aspire for More with Erin, I sit down with Eva Daniel — founder of The Speak Shop, former speechwriter for Dave Ramsey, and one of the Top 20 Communication Experts in the U.S. — to unpack the power of words, storytelling, and clarity in leadership.

Eva believes communication isn’t a “soft skill.” It’s the leadership skill that determines whether your team trusts you, your message lands, and your influence grows.

Together, we explore practical tools and habits that help leaders move from nervous or unclear to confident and compelling. Whether you’re leading a team meeting or standing on a stage, this episode will help you communicate in a way that people remember — and act on.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why clarity is confidence and how leaders can eliminate confusion in their messaging
• The 50-25-25 Rule that will change how you prepare for presentations
• Why every meeting is a stage — and how to show up with presence and impact
• The surprising power of pauses, grounding, and even potato chips for nervous speakers
• How to distill your message into a North Star sentence people will never forget
• Why leaders don’t have to be naturally charismatic — communication is a skill anyone can learn

Resources & Links:

• Connect with Eva Daniel and The Speak Shop → [click here]
• Join the conversation with me on LinkedIn → [click here]
• Subscribe to Aspire for More with Erin wherever you listen to podcasts

New ED's Playbook to Creating and IMpactful Community Cultrue

Connect with me on LinkedIn


Follow me on Facebook where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.

Follow me on Instagram where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.

Join my email list where I will lift you up, and send tactile advice weekly to support you to grow your experience in your senior living career.

Transcript

EriN: 1:05

Words are invisible, but they shape everything that we do. They can launch wars, heal marriages, inspire movements, and destroy leaders. As senior living leaders, entrepreneurs, and communicators, we live and die by the words that we choose. And today's guest, the esteemed Eva Daniel, has spent her career helping leaders sharpen their words, so their messages don't just land. They linger, they stay with us. They ruminate in our minds to create change from serving as a speech writer for Dave Ramsey, how honored are we to have her here to being named one of the top 20 communicate communication experts in the US even knows one truth that every leader needs to hear. Communication is not a soft skill. It's the leadership skill. And today she's here to tell us, or to show us. And tell us why that is. And I'm also a member of her speak school, which I have to say is a really good investment in yourself. So Eva, thank you for being here today.

Eva: 2:11

Aaron, thank you so much for having me. And I love even just that beautiful setup you had on the words that you chose because you're exactly right. Our words have impact, and as leaders, our words have even more impact on so many people. So I'm excited to be part of this discussion today.

EriN: 2:28

Yes. I wanna give Speak School a little bit of a shout out at the beginning I found you on LinkedIn. I found you through your content. I found you to be very relatable. I, so if you're not following Eva Daniel, you need to, because she gives a lot of great, free content out there to learn how to use words appropriately. But the Speak School, it is a group cohort to learn about an outcome that all of us want, which is to be better communicators, better speech writers and presentation givers. So tell me, tell us a little bit about that, and why the group component works so well.

Eva: 3:05

One of the things I love about group coaching, and this is true on our communication skills, it's true as business owners, as leaders, is that groups help sharpen you. You can, we can all get in our ecosystem, especially when it comes to public speaking, which public speaking can be such an intimidating thing for a lot of people. A lot of us maybe are a relying on public. Speaking skills of a class we took in high school or in college. Maybe we didn't even have one, or maybe we joined a Toastmasters club, back in our early twenties. But public speaking skills done in community have such a great potential to change. your speaking as a leader, and one reason why is just because of feedback. Oftentimes we're just not getting good clear feedback on our communication. Maybe we're, our only kind of practicing is get delivering it in front of our bathroom mirror the day we're gonna give it. Or maybe, our spouse, who of course is either, I always jokingly say your spouse is not the best person to give you feedback.'cause either they're gonna be way too honest or maybe not honest. Enough, depending on how long you've been married. Yes. And so the thing I love about group coaching is it allows you to share your ideas, share your thoughts, and get real life feedback on how your content is actually hitting people that are not as familiar with you or your content. It can feel like we're really clear in our communication because we all have this curse of knowledge. We know so much about our fields and our industries and these things that we're passionate about. Oftentimes though, when it comes to translating those ideas, whether it is in a speech or presentation, or even if it's through a writing or a social media post, oftentimes what we think is being really, really clear. It's not at all clear to the people that are listening because they aren't as close to that content as we are. So one of the things I've loved about establishing this community is. One, just the breadth of industries. I mean, it's been so fun getting to know you being in the senior living space and other people in the school are in wildly different industries. We have people in tech, we have professional speakers. We have people that are just getting started in their speaking career, full range and gamut of industries and individuals. And I think that we can really, truly learn so much from each other. And then also just with any group coaching. I think there's just this level of intentionality. Speaking for all of us can be one of those things. The more you regularly are speaking in front of others, that hopefully the easier it's gonna become, the stronger you're gonna become. And having that regular cadence to intentionally be focusing on your speaking can really level up your speaking skills.

EriN: 5:36

Yeah, it's true because I will tell you as somebody who is embarking on the journey of becoming a professional speaker, Sometimes you don't even know what to ask, and to be in a a, a group of other people who are asking questions that you wouldn't even thought to ask is. There is so much value in that, and that is why I love the group setting and I try to get involved and connected as much as I can. Um, and to be able to say that I am in, a group with somebody who wrote speeches for Dave Ramsey, I have to say. Hey, look at who we're talking to today. You know what I mean? So tell me what that was like. Oh, before this I was talking to somebody about your potato chip. Um, piece of advice. Oh yeah, this one. My

Eva: 6:21

favorite. That's one of my favorite tips for people.

EriN: 6:24

Yes. so if you are going to be on a stage or gonna lead a meeting and you're really nervous, whether it's before a resident council or a family meeting, or you know, whatever it is. Eat a bag of potato chips. You have permission

Eva: 6:37

from a speech coach. We're talking plain like yellow blazed bag potato chips. And the reason why is because the salt eats away at the phlegm in your throat. The oil lubricates your throat. And the grease settles of stomach. If you have nerves, so you've heard it here. If you want to level up your, work on those nerves, eat potato chips. And there's a, there's so many different tips. You know, sometimes public speaking can feel overwhelming, but oftentimes there are these, like, these little tips and tricks that professional speakers know how to do. They can make such a difference in your speaking from eating those potato chips or grounding yourself in, in the first minute of speaking or showing your palms. There's a lot of these like little. Things, little nuances that you can do that can really change the way that you are, you're perceived. Yeah. And I think you asked about Dave Ramsey Yes. What that was like. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, it was such a wonderful experience. For anyone listening that's maybe not as familiar with Dave Ramsey, he's a financial expert. He helps. People save money, get out of debt, plan for their future. He has a nationally syndicated radio show. And so several years ago when I was, I was in the radio industry for a really long time, which turned into audio. And so when I first saw the, the posting for a speech writer position at Ramsey Solutions Dave's company, I thought, oh my goodness. I feel like this job description was written for me. But at the time, I was. Pregnant with my third and I was like, who applies for a job when they're pregnant? My husband's like, well, you do. And I'm like, I guess I do. And so I moved cross country right after the birth of my third to work for Dave, and it was such a joy I worked for, wrote for Dave, and then he has an entire team of speakers. They're very talented individuals and I always say that so much of being. Speech writer for people is just helping them pull out their stories, their ideas, their thought leadership, and helping them convey it in a way that can really resonate with the audience. And so it was so fun. I learned so much. And I even feel, we were talking about the Speak school a moment ago. I feel like I am such a student of speeches and speakers and, and what works and just even with the evolving landscape with AI and how do we use that in our speaking and all of these other things, I feel like I'm as. Student right alongside everybody else. And honestly, I learned so much while working for Dave and one of those biggest things was how much time and effort he put into his craft. You know, I think a lot of times we can see these people on stages, we'll go to a conference and we hear, we see sometimes we see big names, Simon Sinek and John Maxwells. And sometimes, you know, we'll just be at our industry conference and it'll be a big name in our industry. We'll think, oh wow, they're amazing. I would love to be like that. Or I would never be that good of a speaker. But what we don't see is just the hours and the time and the dedication they've put into it. Public speaking is a skill just like any other. It's learned, it's developed, it's grown over time, and anyone can be become a better speaker. Now, that's not to say that everyone has the same level of it factor, you know that we're all gonna make, you know, a million dollars a year's. Speaking. I mean, that'd be nice, Erin, if I, I can't, I'm cheering you on to get there. you know, we all want, but what we all can do is become the best version of ourself on the, on when we're giving a presentation, the most authentic version of ourself. We can feel confident in what we're saying and we can be confident in our delivery. And I believe that about each and every person.

EriN: 9:58

Yeah. It starts with the Lays potato chips for sure. It starts with

Eva: 10:01

potato chips. All you

EriN: 10:02

gotta do. It's true though. I think when I started this process, I would, in the community, I would run standup meetings and then our pep rally meetings, like a 15 minute meeting that a lot of people struggle with in our industry because you make it a 15 minute meeting, all of a sudden turns into a 30 to a 45 minute meeting, and then it loses it's power and its impact because now it's time wasted instead of time, saving. and I love how you have said leaders don't have a content problem. They have a communication problem. and it's how to be effective with words. And, and that's a struggle for me and goes to your point of practicing because when I first started, I thought that I could just whip out a presentation the way that I whipped out a standup or a pep rally and just go up there. But. It is a skill, it is a practice, and I wanted to give everybody a book and I'm learning how to give people a chapter and it's, that's a great way to put it. It's really hard when you know all this stuff and then you're asking me to distill it down to. some tension, some problem solving, some trust, and then a few points. And I'm like, no,

Eva: 11:22

I have so much fun. I want them to have everything and sometimes we wanna give chapters when they need a page or a sentence. Yes, yes. And you know, that's one of the biggest things and. Earlier this year, I had the privilege of working with Jefferson Fisher and anyone that doesn't follow Jefferson Fisher, he's a brilliant communicator. He wrote a great book called The Next Conversation. He does these incredible 62nd reels about communication, and one of the things that I was so struck by was how he's able to say so much in a minute. Because he really intentionally chooses his words. And that's not to say, you know, there are spaces that we do naturally, you know, in an ideal world, we have a long time to think about this presentation. The reality for a lot of us, you go to work and you find out your coworkers sick, and now you're presenting the thing in an hour. Or you don't necessarily have this super long timeline to like. Perfectly craft all of the words. The good news though, is there are some really practical things you can do to create your presentations quickly, even if you are on a shorter timeline. And one of the big ones is just really being clear on what that presentation is and getting, no matter if you're presenting for an hour or that 15 minutes or five of just going, okay, I'm gonna take a step back. And if I had to distill this entire presentation down into one sentence of what it's about. What is it about and getting that clear North Star one sentence line for whatever your presentation is, because that can really start helping you drive what stays, what goes in the presentation that you're delivering.

EriN: 12:56

Do you know this hearing that, how much anxiety that gives me because it's really hard.

Eva: 13:01

It is really hard.

EriN: 13:03

you made a comment that made me feel better because I was. Doing this and the tension and like this, the inner dialogue that I was having about these presentations, you made a comment about how the whiteboard, I think it was a whiteboard, that it's full of all these ideas and the hardest part is to take it down to one sentence or one sentence and four points on an outline or whatever that is. you make it sound like it's. Hard, but you say it in such a sweet way that it's hard. It doesn't see, it doesn't feel like the war that's happening on the inside of me. It's,

Eva: 13:38

it's so hard. And even I was speaking in Atlanta a couple months ago and they asked me to speak on a topic that's a little bit outside of what I, my, I'm still think my parents are still shocked. I've made a career talking about talking like I feel kind of vindicated from my childhood, but often when I am asked to speak, I. Speak about speaking, which sounds kind of meta, but in this case, I was asked to speak about personal branding with kind of a communication spin, which is, I've worked really hard on personal branding posting on LinkedIn as I know you have too, Erin. So that's something I'm passionate about, but it's not like the normal topic. And so when I started brainstorming, I mean, it was. Ridiculous. So many things brainstormed. And then I was like, well, what stays and what goes? And that's again, back to kinda like that community piece. And you don't necessarily have to join, you know, you don't have to hire a speech coach or join a speech community. But what you might need is just a friend, a few colleagues to help you pick through. What is the most important thing for your audience to know? Because sometimes it sounds beautiful and simple. Just get it down to that with North Star, that driving sense. I don't even know how I have a hundred things everybody needs to know. Yes. So sometimes just having an outside perspective, whoever that might be in your life, to help you figure out, okay, what are the most important things for me to cover?

EriN: 14:47

So do you feel like that one sentence is that's the content. And then the communication of that is, it's like for us in the senior living world, in the skilled nursing world, standup is a 15 minute meeting and the the point behind it is to know. What's going on in your community? What success is for that day, what tours are going, and it is about how to be successful today. I suppose that would be the one sentence that standup is how are we defining success today?

Eva: 15:21

Yeah. How are we, so that's your one sentence. How are we defining success today? And there might be five things. Five things we're gonna be focusing a day or seven or three depending on, you know, I'm sure it varies a little bit from team to team that's even giving that kind of presentation. But yeah, keeping that north star that, like how are we gonna define success today? It gets down to these three things, these five things, these, and so keeping that clarity and then of course I, you know, I'm a huge fan of storytelling, be stories maker, content stick. So our communication is not just relaying facts. And information, a lot of that can be done. You know, I can't tell you how many presentations I have heard over the years. That could have been an email sending the slide deck because that, you know, you need to keep in mind like you not, your slide deck as a presentation is the presentation. But what can you add that can't show up in the email? Well, your passion, your stories, your humor, your human to human connection. You have all of those things as giftings to you as the communicator. So don't waste those moments by sharing things that like, really, some of those tactical things might be able to be sent. In another form of communication. So really utilizing those moments that you do have with your team and treating them as a gift because people are giving you the most valuable resource, which is their time. Mm-hmm. Now, I mean, they might be giving you their time'cause they have to be there because it's a mandatory meeting. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But either way, it's still like, mm-hmm. Hey, you have this captive audience. Like use it to the best of your ability.

EriN: 16:44

So in meetings, whether it's an hour long meeting, let's say it's a manager meeting or it's. A group coaching or a presentation, what is your advice for when people can simplify their message? So they act on it not just hear it.

Eva: 17:02

Well, let's talk about the two components, both the con, that content side and then the delivery side.

EriN: 17:06

Yeah.

Eva: 17:07

One thing with meetings, I can't tell you even just professionally. Now, of course I work for myself the last few years, but I can't tell you professionally how many, dozens, hundreds of times I've been to meetings and there hasn't been a lot of clarity on the front end really even. Mm-hmm. The meeting's about, does everybody need to go? Am I participating in this meeting? Am I just going to listen to you talk? So some of those clarifying things on the front end of every meeting you have just TA saying, Hey, the purpose of the meeting is this. Maybe just sending a few bullet points ahead of time if you're not doing this in terms of like flow or what we're hoping to cover. And as from a content perspective as the presenter being really clear what the call to action is. If there is one, not every single presentation we give has this very clear things that people need to do. Sometimes we're just informing people, sometimes we're giving updates, but it never hurts. At the end of your pre, first of all, at the beginning of your presentation, give them, this is the one piece of high advice we learned in high school that I'm a big fan of, which is telling them what you're gonna tell'em and then tell'em and. Tell'em what you told them. So at the front of your presentation, yes. Tell them where you're going. Hey, today we're gonna talk about how we're gonna win, you know, success today, let's just say it said stand up. Success. Today as a team, we're gonna talk about three things. Be really clear on where you're going, and then go that order. I always say in every single audience is a Susan from accounting. Susan from accounting likes life to be in a logical, linear flow that makes sense. There's a lot of people in your rooms that are Susan, they wanna know where you're going. I mean, you and I might be big idea creative people, and I can just ride wherever you take me, but there are always gonna be people in the room that want clarity. So when you can give that ahead of time before the meeting even is a meeting, be clear on who needs to come, what the purpose of the meeting is, what the goals of the meeting are. Assuming that you're doing those things and you have your content that's structured in, ideally you're gonna add in a story. If every speech or presentation ideally is solving a problem, hey, what problem are we facing? What's the solution that's 15 minute standup on success? the problem is we don't wanna have a unsuccessful day. The solution is we need to have a successful day. Here are in the ways that we're gonna make that happen. Being really clear, if there is a call to action in your content of what do you want people to do with what they heard? Sometimes I always say the best presentations are one that layer in both a short term and a long term action. Short term might be, Hey, before you leave this meeting today. Do the sign in sheet or sign up or scan the QR code, and then maybe there is a longer term thing that you need them to be working on, because by the end of the quarter, we need to have accomplished whatever the thing is, but being really, really clear on what that is. From a delivery standpoint, you've already addressed a little bit. We, we were joking, but it is true about the potato chips. But there are a few other things you can do to command the room better when you're giving a presentation and a meeting. And one of those is make sure. You have back to the content for just a second. Make sure you have a strong open. So many of our presentations start with, um, so, um, okay. Well, you know, Aaron asked me to, um, come and, well, you know, when I was thinking about today, I was thinking about, and we haven't really said anything. Instead, I want you to start with confidence. Oftentimes, I recommend. That might be diving right into the center of a story. Sometimes if it's more meeting based, it might just be an interesting fact. But what is a hook, a tease, something interesting? Your first sentence, you don't waste it on pleasantries, you dive right in. Mm-hmm. But from a physical, you know, nerve standpoint, I always recommend, let's just say you're kind of in your conference room, you know, 15, 20, 30 people when you walk to the front. I encourage everybody to ground themselves wherever you're speaking. And what I mean by that is you're consciously planting your feet shoulder width apart, you're dropping your shoulders, opening your arms up and smiling. These, you're glad to be there. You're not rocking back and forth. You're not putting a hand in a pocket. You're not talking before you're actually settled at the front of the room. You're commanding the moment. A big thing that can happen. We start talking too fast because we're excited, we feel rushed. Maybe we really don't have 15 minutes of content. We have 30 that we're trying to cram into 15, and we just get going really fast. So I always say one of the most commanding ways you can increase not only the confidence that you have in you, but that others have in you, is to slow your pace and pause, let your ideas sink in. Let your stories sink in and use more pausing throughout your presentation. Pausing can also help you reduce those fellow words. Oftentimes, our words are going so fast, it's having trouble keeping up with our brain, and then before we know we're creeping in all of these different fellow words. So pausing can help with that as well, of just saying, I'm glad you know, kinda almost mentally telling yourself, wow, I'm not in a rush. I'm glad to be here and have plenty of time to present my information and intentionally using pausing can command the room and the attention of the room.

EriN: 21:49

I will say that pause is very intimidating. It is, when you use it as a tool, at first you're just like. What do I do with this? With this pause

Eva: 22:00

and one of things, but too in my pausing is we wanna make sure that they are intentional pauses. Not the awkward pregnant pause where it looks like you've lost your space and are grabbing for any thought in your head. I'm talking about intentionally using a pause to let your ideas sink in. Yes. It's Maybe move on with your next idea. I know it is. When people, as a speaker, the pause feels forever to forever. Three seconds catching that beat. I love the way looping back to Jefferson Fisher, he calls it the conversational breath before you start. Just kind of like taking the breath and then starting in, but taking those, taking just a little bit of a beat throughout your presentation to pause.

EriN: 22:40

I am comfortable now. I, I have been more intentional, but you know, the pause for the speaker does feel like forever. She's not lying about that, even if it's just three seconds. But if you ask somebody a question and then no one like responds. Or that is another pause that feels a little unnerving because then as you're a speaker and you're like, am I not connecting? Am I not engaging? Is this just a shy room? You know? And then, and then when you are creating the content and you really are planning for a five minute dialogue. And no one's talking. It's just like, okay, now what do I do? You know, there's so much doing

Eva: 23:23

One thing I recommend there. I love humor. I think humor and communication is one of the best ways that we can level up our presentations. So when we're thinking about those pauses that feel super awkward, I think it can be very helpful as a speaker to just have a couple pocket jokes If your content does fall flat. Let's say you were planning on a five minute discussion and people aren't jumping in with any ideas and you're thinking, okay, what am I, what am I doing here? So having just a couple light pocket lines that you could have. So for example, for me, one of those is I'm a mom of four, and so I'll say something like. Oh, well, you know, I'm a mom of four. I can wait all day, you know, or I have a lot of patience. That's funny. Funny. It's not overly funny. That's funny. We're not having tears running down our face. But oftentimes humor is just a little bit of levity or a little bit of self-awareness, and I always like to challenge my clients to think through anything that you're gonna try into presentation, whether it's audience participation. Maybe you're trying a prop. Maybe you're incorporating some other creative elements just in your head. Have a little bit of a plan B. If it doesn't work, you think it's going to work, but it never hurts to go. Okay, I'm gonna open up for discussion. It's gonna be this lively, amazing discussion. Okay, what am I gonna do if no one starts discussing? What would be a line or what would be just so kind of almost like troubleshooting things if they don't work, let's say same goes even, let's say you're planning on playing a video as part of your presentation, you go to play the video. Oh no, the audio doesn't work or people can't hear it. And it's not that you're like, dooms Danish, like planning everything. But if you are doing a few of those intentional spots where you were thinking they were gonna be high audience engagement within your presentation, just kind of thinking through a little bit of what that plan B could be, can help you in the moment feel more confident if you open it up and no one's participating. Yeah,

EriN: 25:06

so true. Okay, just to recap all the things that we've done so far,'cause we have a few more points that we wanna do, but eat potato chips if you're nervous. It helps everything and then not have too much information. In your meetings or in your presentations, what's the one point that you want to make, the one sentence that you want people to walk away from? I probably have 10, but what's the one? And I help chat. GPTI asked chat GBT to help me with that too because I have 10. I'm like, can you please distill this down to what my one sentence is? You know, I do that sometimes. And that the power of the pause and the clear messaging is really important. And I, well, going back to meetings in this recap is people need to know why they're coming to the meeting and what they're gonna gain from it. Especially if we're, if we're a new leader and we're trying to. Bring meetings into the fold and you have a lot of resistance and they don't know what's in it for them. That's where that one sentence in defining success is, this is why we're having the meetings, and if you can't say that, you're not gonna get the buy-in.

Eva: 26:17

Exactly. And to that, and I love that you brought through the what's in it for them. Because the entire time your audience is listening to you, they're kind of, they're processing through, what's in this for me? Why should I care? And so even doing a little bit of the pre-work on your presentation, I always encourage clients to think through. Okay. When I'm thinking about the speech, this presentation, what do I want my audience to know? What do I want them to feel? What do I want them to do? Have those be your guiding of the content, just so that you're really clear and the audience is clear of what's in it for them so that they are more engaged in your presentation and they can see that clearly.

EriN: 26:53

Yeah. I was helping one of my coaching clients get ready for a big presentation that she was doing and. I was like, define your mission. define what you want them. And it was basically what you said. Tell them what they're gonna know. Tell'em what you want them to know. Tell them you know where you're going. And then you know, at the end what they do know. And because when you do that, you do command the room because you are telling, you know, you've got, you're confident up there. And that's what that clear, that clarity is. Um, the other thing I wanted to bring up, I, I listen a lot to John Maxwell and this was really funny. he was talking about how everybody thinks he's so good at speaking and he's talking about, and people wanna be who he is today. And I do listen to him and he is really good. He is really good at, yeah, he's said several times.

Eva: 27:42

Met him a few times. he's a great speaker,

EriN: 27:46

but he's like, I wasn't this good all the time. And he goes, and he, he says this over and over is like, you wanna know why I am this good? Because I've done this 12,000 times.

Eva: 27:57

Yeah, it gets back to that, that practicing and rep. Yes. And then also there is a level, the, the higher the stakes. I mean, we always wanna show up. Well, even just for a team, we can do that. I would say though, obviously the. The bigger the audience. And by big audience, I don't mean the number of people, I mean the impact it will have on you, your team, your business. Sometimes the biggest presentations we'll give because maybe we're gonna be selling our company and it's just handful of investors. So as far as like big, or it could be a big room or conference, but also making sure that you, put the time and intention that that. You know that that merits, do you need to spend 15 hours for five minute presentation on Monday? I hope not. Mm-hmm. I hope you can create it a lot quicker. Mm-hmm. But if you're asked to speak at a really big industry conference where you're gonna be able to represent your company in front of thousands of people, I. I hope that you're spending more time and intentionality and really refining and practicing it through, so making sure that you're giving enough time. And then the other thing too, there's another, do you follow Terry plt? He was an Obama speech writer, so he said, no, but I got his book. I was gonna say, he has a fantastic book. He has, he's really, regardless of, you know, any political stance that anybody is, his book is really, really great. And one of the things he has in there that I love is a concept he calls, 50 25. 25 that 50% of your time should be spent. Thinking about your topic. Yes. You know, brainstorming, thinking through 25% is in that writing, but making sure you reserve 25% of the time to working on the delivery. I can't tell you how many times I have seen presentations where I know either Visa the person told me afterwards, or I could just tell that the very first time they were delivering it was in front of a live audience. That should never be your first time. Mm-hmm. Delivering it. Make sure you reserve. There's gotta be a point where you say, I'm no longer working on my content. I'm gonna make that switch to start working on my delivery. And being stronger in that area.

EriN: 29:50

Yeah. I, I don't think I, I think I underestimated, a I am one of these people who feel like I can cha I should change content all the time, which is, well, it's kind

Eva: 30:00

of fun too. And you're passion is about your industry,

EriN: 30:02

you know, like the more you read, I'm like, oh, I should put that in there. And it's just like, Aaron, you're gonna have to let this go. But it is practicing it and feeling it. And not putting as much on the slides. I went, there was a time where I was putting everything on a slide, and I think some of it was my own safety net. and now it's like, feel the message, which I always felt the message, but it's like, Erin, just feel the message. You don't have to make the slides. You know a book'cause that's too much. Yes.

Eva: 30:33

and it was just fascinating. just yesterday here in the Nashville area, I attended this event, which is kind of like, almost like a local shark tank. It was founders and funders. So people were pitching their, they had three minutes, there was nine presenters and they each had three minutes. Chip present their company, their pitch. And I couldn't believe how much was on these slides. And I was at the back of the room and I'm in my forties now, so my vision is not what it used to be and I couldn't read them the angle I was at. And so I was just like, oh. Such a reminder again that like you not your slide deck as a presentation. Yes. And you have to keep in mind multitasking, people are trying to read this slide'cause you're not as the speaker, maybe you're not covering everything on it. So I'm trying to read this slide. I'm listening to you, plus all of these room dynamics. Go minimal on your slides, put a lot less on there than you think, and then follow up after that meeting with a more robust, hey, for those of you who wanna go deeper or wanna see that, you know, see more of the research or more of the findings. Doing a follow up with that rather than trying to present it all visually behind you.

EriN: 31:32

Yeah. The other thing, the exercise that we worked on last, Speak school was really interesting. It's like role play with yourself when we talked about tone and pacing and energy. And if you really watch the big speakers like Dave and John and, some of the, you know, it's so funny, I can't think of female

Eva: 31:55

Well, like

EriN: 31:55

Mel

Eva: 31:56

Robbins or

EriN: 31:56

Jamie Fern Lima or, yes, yes, yes. I listen to those podcasts. they really focus on. You can, like, if you really pay attention to the technicalities of what they do, you can hear the tone, you hear the pacing, you know what I mean? And, and the energy of it. And it does engage you more.

Eva: 32:20

It does. And vocal variety. Yeah. That is one of the best delivery tools. And there's a lot of aspects to vocal variety, and you can get really nuanced, but for most of us, couple of the biggest things we can do to bring more variety at our voice is just thinking, speeding up and slowing down. Speed going faster when you're really excited. And then. Pausing to let that big idea sink in or going slower when that, you know, that thing happened to you. And then loud, you know, loud the volume loud or being quiet to emphasize things. And then yeah, the emotional tone of what is the emotion you want associated with the story or the thing. But there is so much that can be said about vocal variety, but it is one of those things that just next time, even your, I always say, one of the best places to learn about speaking and your own speaking. Listening to others. We are all hearing a lot of presentations throughout the week, whether it's a work, whether it's a webinar we caught, whether we go to, you know, a church of some kind, whether we're listening to podcasts, whether we're at conferences and we hear 15 speakers in three days. Whatever the scenario is, the next time you are listening to another speaker, just observe about them. What do I like about their speaking? That I might be able to implement my own communication? Mm-hmm. Or, wow, what is something I don't like about their communication that I wanna make sure that I don't do. Even just that simple questions of what do I like, what do I don't like? And start being more of an observer, first of all, that can help you be more active when you are. Sitting through, you know, 15, 15 keynotes in a few days if you're at a conference. But it also, you know, kind of helps you be more engaged and in tune with your message as well. And hopefully you'll be able to observe some things that you really like, whether it is vocal variety or if you're self-aware listening in your self-aware enough to know, oh, you know, I don't think my body language is as good, or, wow, I use a lot of filler words. Well, next time you hear a speaker. What are they doing with their body? Body language? Mm-hmm. Do they use a lot of filler words and let's just say you observe. Wow, that speaker was incredible. I struggle with filler words. I didn't see them use any, go up to them afterwards and say, Hey, I loved, I know you're this way as a speaker. I love it when people come up after I'm done speaking to talk to me and go up to them and say, I loved your presentation. I struggle with filler words. I know that. I noticed you hardly had any, what's, what's your secret? You'd be amazed at just how much you can learn that way about your own speaking and even just determining, you know, our goal is never to be a carbon copy of someone else. The world already has a Dave Ramsey and a John Maxwell. you need to be the best version of you. But one way you do get there is figuring out, well, what is the best version of me? Mm-hmm. And for those areas that maybe are I, I know they're a little bit weaker. I don't love the way that I come across. How can you work on those areas in your speaking? And a lot of times it just comes from observing other great speakers.

EriN: 35:03

It really does. Speakers and practice, I mean, and

Eva: 35:07

practice.

EriN: 35:07

It is practice. and I'll tell you, I, I didn't love, this is my own thing, like pausing and speaking to myself, but when I was practicing my presentation, I could tell because I did that. It was like I became aware and it really is doing what you don't wanna do it. that's the practice of it. Because if I wanna become better, I have to be aware of that vocal variety. And I don't know if I would've, it would've been as, in the forefront if we had not had that meeting. And this is not just for presentation. Speaking. This is for your meetings inside your company. Inside your business, because when we talk about legacy and burnout, and trust building, trust breaking trust, avoiding burnout, accelerating burnout. Really communication is the key because if we're not communicating well enough, people don't know what we're thinking and we're getting angry at them, or we're getting frustrated at them and it's because we didn't tell them or we didn't clarify what we know. And I think a lot of the burnout healthcare is facing and a lot of different industries is because we're not clear. We're not communicating and. you know, one of our last points, Eva, you know, if a leader wants to grow their influence and their longevity and their role and communication is the problem, how do they find the confidence to stop making it a problem? Right? Start focusing on it and. Becoming better. I feel like we touched on that, but

Eva: 36:48

we've already kind of hit it I think a little bit. Yeah. Is one is just self-awareness and making the choice of. Yes. I believe that public speaking and good communication skills is the best way to grow yourself as a leader, grow your company. So let's say you also kind of have that self-awareness of going, okay, I wanna improve. I'm really busy, I'm running from thing to thing to thing. I don't have time to like join membership sites and read books and like great for them. Mm-hmm. I just always encourage people to think of as being a five minute a day investment, five minutes a day. Intentionally work on your communication. Mm-hmm. Maybe that's just five minutes a day, one conversation a day. Let's say filler words are a problem, one conversation a day. I'm not waiting until I have a big meeting or whatever, just one conversation a day with my spouse or a a, you know, colleague. I'm gonna consciously try to reduce my filler words, just that five minutes. Five minutes a day, or maybe for you it's, wow. I think that my vocal variety could be better. Just one conversation I'm having a day, just normal conversation with my teen, you know, my teen, my teen kid, I'm gonna work on my vocal variety. They won't know that you're doing it, but the way that you're applying these skills on a daily basis, just a normal conversation, are the things that translate to how you're communicating at work. And in those meetings. And then of course, for those that are like, no, I'm the type of person I want to overhaul. Obviously there's. So many great communications, you know, local clubs from, you know, NSA chapters or Toastmasters or Dale Carnegie courses, as well as obviously like online ones like I do, or you know, if you want to keep going up that spectrum. But even just reading books. But a lot of times I think it just gets down to just that awareness to go, wow, I'm gonna spend five minutes a day thinking through my body language or how I'm communicating, or wow. I'm not even presenting at this next meeting, but the CEO of our company is, or our CMO or whoever is, I'm gonna just observe them as a speaker and, and what do I think, what do I, how do I feel like that they organize their content? That helps you become more engaged even in the meetings you're in instead of. S you know, subtly scrolling your phone or computer, like actually be fully engaged in the moments you're in and lean into your becoming a better communicator.

EriN: 38:47

Yeah. Becoming is the key word. And you will gain trust if you communicate consistently and you follow up and follow through. Yes. I, that is one area that I was really good at inside of a community that I have doubled down now. As a strength and learning how to turn that into, to a business, which was really important. I didn't understand that that was a strength I didn't understand until you look back and you realize that's what I was really good at, was communicating it was preparing them, validating them, and then, prepping them for what's to come. Like when you can do that to all of our stakeholders in any business. You've got trust. And when people know their role and their value, you know, they will work harder for that. And that's why I am wanted Eva here today to be able to, I. Really communicate just how important, words and language in our communication style is. But since you are such a valued coach and inside, the speaking world, I have one fun question for you. Yes. You've coached some of the biggest voices in business. So impressive. What separates forgettable speakers from unforgettable speakers?

Eva: 40:07

The biggest thing is your ability to tell stories. Yeah. If it's a, it's an art form, but the best speakers in the world have learned how to communicate their ideas through stories because stories make our content stick.

EriN: 40:22

Mm-hmm. It is true. Someone asked me once, do you give me an analogy that you remember? And I'm just like, what an analogy. and it was an analogy. It was a story that I heard of a speaker tell, and I've never played golf before and it was about golf. I don't even know what it meant on the golf course, but I understood what it meant. Like in life, my time is valuable.

Eva: 40:46

Yeah. And it's amazing how those stories can, can stick with us. And then, the other thing kind of within that is really striving to be a thought leader in your space. recognizing the, moment in time to share the message that is, on the inside is, that's obviously another thing that makes me the creative speakers, but the skill I know we can all learn is, well, we can all learn to be more of thought leaders, but storytelling.

EriN: 41:12

Yeah. So true. People remember stories. Alright, Eva, tell us how people can get in touch with you, um, if they are interested in your services and creating excellent speakers, and joining the Speak School.

Eva: 41:26

They can find me@thespeakshop.com and there I have, I have newsletter and all sorts of things. You can find information on all the things I'm doing and then you and I met on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. I post a lot of regular public speaking tips there and so I would love to connect with anyone there on LinkedIn as well. But the speak shop.com and on LinkedIn. And on LinkedIn, I'm Eva Rose Daniel.

EriN: 41:49

That's right. I really got a lot of benefit from her emails and from her post. So definitely give her a follow that is important. Just remember, leadership isn't about titles or tenure or how, how high up the food chain that we go. It really is about the words that you use and the clarity that you bring because when you are clear, you are kind and everybody simers down and follows. hopefully creates a buy-in and follows in and does their job. So thank you Eva, for being here and teaching us how to use our words with courage, clarity, that's really important. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. And for all my listeners, always, you know what to do. Aspire for more for you, knowing that you're already enough. Have a great day.