How Great Leaders Turn Transitions into Long-Term Referrals

Transitions of care are some of the most emotionally charged moments in senior living — and they are where trust is either built or broken.

In this episode, Erin is joined by regional long-term care business development leader Kaci to explore why transitions of care are not just operational or clinical challenges, but true leadership moments.

Together, they unpack why senior living breaks down most often during transitions, how mismanaged emotions lead to fractured relationships, and why the way a family feels when they leave your community becomes your reputation.

Through real-world examples and a rapid-fire “Agree, Disagree, or It’s Complicated” segment, this episode bridges sales, service, and leadership — offering clarity for Executive Directors, regional leaders, sales professionals, nurses, social workers, and anyone navigating complex care conversations.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why transitions are emotional long before they are logistical
• The difference between change and transition — and why it matters
• How mismanaged emotions derail trust during care transitions
• Why communication failures are often capacity failures
• How leaders unintentionally turn referrals into ruptures
• When sales should (and shouldn’t) be involved in clinical conversations
• Why relationships don’t end when residents leave — they begin

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Transcript

Erin: 1:05

if you have ever had a family say to you, you are just trying to move them For your own benefit or if you ever felt your stomach drop before a higher level of transition of care conversation, which God knows we all have. If you've ever watched a relationship unravel during a transition and thought this didn't have to go this way, this episode is for. You. So if you're an executive director and you've had those experience, if you're a regional director and you've had those experiences, a sales leader, a director of nursing, social worker, case manager, anyone who's had to have these tough conversations, this conversation is for you because transitions of care are not an operational issue. They are not a sales issue, they are not a clinical issue. What kind of issue are they? They are a leadership issue and the way the family feels when they leave your community for the last time truly becomes your reputation and your legacy and the highest number of people referring to your community. unless you are new. Build a community that just opened in the last two years or so. So today we're gonna unpack why senior living breaks down most often during transitions, and how leaders unintentionally turn referrals into ruptures instead of relationships. My favorite line, and this is something that Kacie, my guest and I are going to be talking about today, is that change is situational. That transition is personal. I have an entire presentation around that phrase alone. Change equals move policy, acuity shift regulation, but transition equals fear, grief, identity loss, guilt, uncertainty, and they are existing and happening at the same time. So this is where I wanna bring in Kacie Print. She has an interesting take on this as well as a long-term care regional director of business development. She sees what happens before, during, and after transitions, and she knows that referrals are built on trust when they are built on fear. We're gonna dissect this a lot. So, Kacie prt, thank you for being here today. Thank you for this topic. I appreciate it.

Kacie: 3:32

Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. And whenever I was thinking about it, I'm like, Erin is the best person to talk about this with.'cause I, I really respect your view on it and your expertise too. So I think it'd be fun to kind of go through. I have to say, when you said change versus transition. Like change sounds scary and harsh. Like that's like you're changing, like you're doing it a transition that's a little bit more, it just sounds like all inclusive, doesn't it? A little more flowy.

Erin: 4:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean it really, it's like change is we're gonna change clothes. Like it's just something that we do. You're doing it. Yeah. You're just doing it and from both long-term care and assisted living memory care. The person in the seat, whether you're a director of nursing or you are an executive director. We're doing that all the time. We're, we are dealing with changes all the time, but that daughter, son, granddaughter, whatever. This is a huge transition in their life.

Kacie: 4:35

Yes. Yeah. They don't know that change, you know, when you say change or you act like that towards them, it makes'em fearful. It's not comfortable. So if you see it as a transition that. That provides a little bit of a piece for them.

Erin: 4:50

Yes. Because I asked this question in one of my, presentations. what is the biggest change that you've gone through recently inside of your community, in, in your instance, like inside your region? What community, what was it? Somebody said? a payroll software. God knows. How challenging that change is. Yeah. Right. And then I asked, okay, what was the hardest part about that change? And it was people,

Kacie: 5:21

yeah. I think honestly, in our region, I just wanna add this because we were doing a lot of big changes. the first year that I was here, the company was doing a lot of stuff. And I feel like we're at a place now where we're just evolving. Like we're at the point of. It's not big scary changes like that. We had to do those to get where we are now. But now it's just a constant. We are constantly looking at things and trying to evolve and do better. And when you have that mindset, it makes it a little bit not as aggressive.

Erin: 5:50

Change is scary. Mm-hmm. Because it makes us look at things differently like that fear. It's like the fear. Mm-hmm. When you think about change. When fear comes into it, that is transition. You have to let go. When I had a payroll change, which seems so silly, but like I was so angry about it, I had to let go of processes that I knew how to do. Like I could just do these things and now all of a sudden I have to tell everybody, you know? It's just a huge undertaking. It is a huge transition, and it was fear. And it was loss and it was uncertainty. And I think that those are the things that weren't handled very well in that particular circumstances. And when you handle them well, it can change everything. Yeah.

Kacie: 6:43

Perspective, like the perspective and the buy-in. And also I think what you are when you're looking at things like that. Are you looking at it for you or are you looking at for like, what is the goal? You know, if it's for the community or for the patients or whoever the team, then that, that shouldn't be something that is a self-centered, like fear or, you know what I mean? Whenever I say that, it should be more of like, okay, this is what's best, so let's focus on that. Even though it might be hard, we're gonna get through it together.

Erin: 7:13

Yeah, for sure. and I didn't do that. I'll tell you. I did it, but I was angry about it. You know what I mean? Anyways, that was a different version, but it was true. the senior living profession is most vulnerable during transitions. Do you agree with that? if you have a resident moving to higher level of care, moving in, moving out, going on hospice, declining, needing home healthcare, any of those types of transitions,

Kacie: 7:42

I think that they're always vulnerable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I don't think that just that change is what it is. it is a higher peak.'cause you would have families and other people that might have to make choices that they've never had to make before. And it is a little scary. There might be more emotions involved, but their whole transition is vulnerable for them. That's not normal for them. It's not what they're used to.

Erin: 8:08

Because you get to see things in a scale, right? In your role from

Kacie: 8:12

upstream referral sources. Yeah. The whole patient transition essentially. Yes.

Erin: 8:19

so what do you see works, what are best practices, I guess, and then like what are some big. hello. There's a mountain in the way.

Kacie: 8:28

yeah. You know what I mean? Avoid this,

Erin: 8:30

go to this other road, you know? Yeah.

Kacie: 8:33

Don't be the person that falls in the, in the horror movie, Yes. Okay. So best practice is focus on the patient if we're truly looking at the patient and what's best for them. It changes everything because it's not, it's not like I have to do this, or we're not focusing on something for us, or how we feel and how we feel people should be showing up for us during that, or how the hospital should be communicating to us, that can cause a lot of disconnect in silos. Yes. Um, whenever we're focusing on the whole patient's journey and making sure that everybody's aware of how each person and what they do affects the next spot in that person's journey, it's just an all inclusive, everybody's communicating a well, oiled machine.

Erin: 9:20

Mm-hmm.

Kacie: 9:20

Um, when you start working in silos, don't work in silos. Silos is where it's, you can have processes and, and there should be guardrails, right. But. When you are micromanaging processes and not looking at people, we're a people industry and you can't lose sight of that. So if we have the hospitals working for what's best for them and the, placement, whether it's a assisted living or skilled nursing facility or wherever, looking at what's best for them. Everybody's wanting to feel heard and seen, and they want people to do what's best for them versus it being, well, what's, what's best for the patient? That's what the goal is here and that's what, why we're here. don't silo work together. You know, it sounds really easy, but it, it can take, it can take a lot to get everybody on the same page.

Erin: 10:07

No, it really can. You have to be intentional. my word for 2026 is. it's really, it looks like embrace possibilities, but in order to embrace possibilities, you have to get really curious, right. And then you have to get really intentional. Mm-hmm. Because if anything is possible, then you have to get real intentional about what do you want to be possible. You can't make

Kacie: 10:33

people see anything outside of what they don't want to see. You know, it ultimately comes down to the person, every person, like what? What do they want? What do they wanna be intentional? Do they want to, embrace those opportunities and be curious or do they wanna complain about maybe what's happening and that's it. They don't wanna see it any differently.

Erin: 10:53

Mm-hmm.

Kacie: 10:54

Neither is right, right or wrong. It's just what they choose.

Erin: 10:57

I think that there is a lot with the transitions being, to me, such a, a huge way of being able to show value to the person. I genuinely care about your loved one. And there are a lot of tasks and things that need to get done through this process, right? And so bad transitions. Aren't necessarily bad intentions, right? No. They're just uhuh, mismanaged emotions because we already know that the family's feeling, fear, uncertainty, grief, all these things. And if we are not managing our own emotions or expecting all these other players, the home health, the hospice, the hospital, the rehab, all these other things to work on our schedule, now we are frustrated and we are venting to a family member. Who is feeling uncertainty, grief, sadness, fear. Yeah. And those are mismanaged emotions. And those are what's

Kacie: 11:58

killing you. Yeah. And the leaders are responsible for it. You know, it all comes down to leadership. It's interesting because. Throughout my whole career, I've always said that I advocate as if this was my grandpa or that's how I really try. And actually right now my grandpa's in the hospital and we're trying, we're going through that. So I'm kind of actually in the position that I've never been in, but have said that's why I do what I do. And it has also opened my eyes up to a whole new area of like the people, It, there's so many gaps, like the therapy he's not receiving because they just, they don't have the staff. And if you don't have somebody there to advocate for it, yes. Some of those departments just go into doing what's best for them and not the patient. And like, what a disservice is that, you know? And I think that if we all could remember why we are here and why we got into the industry, and it wasn't about us. I mean, it was some, but really we all have hearts and that's why we're here for the, the people. I know it's been really interesting though.

Erin: 13:02

Yes. And on that point, one of the things that I always made a priority only like only because I believe there's a win-win in every situation. and I think that transitions are certainly, there's win win-wins if you look at it from family, your community, and then the place where they're coming from is, I'm gonna tell the family. How to guide the care in the hospital. You're gonna need to be there when somebody's, when they're rounding. You're gonna need to ask when the doctor rounds, and then you're going to need to be there. And these are some questions that you need to ask. You're gonna need to let the social worker know You came from my community. You want to go back? That's incredible.

Kacie: 13:45

Yeah.

Erin: 13:46

Yeah. And you need to be there. Yeah. You want to be admitted The goal is let's get her some rehab and then let's bring her back. Right? Yeah. These are the things that you can tell the family so they feel less triggered because that's important and you don't feel as pressured because you're guiding them, you're solving So if you're a director of nursing, if you're an executive director, like this is,

Kacie: 14:10

you're already building trust. This makes my job

Erin: 14:11

easier.

Kacie: 14:12

yeah. Oh yeah, 100%. And you're showing up in ways that nobody else has for that patient in that time or that family member in that time. And then also from like a partner side, you know, tell calling them and saying the case manager, whoever that might be, that maybe would be discharging the person is letting them know, Hey, I did tell them this, or I, I, I gave them this piece and they do have my information. I've been talking. Just keeping everybody in the loop helps. Make things smoother. Everybody has the information and now you're forming relationships. Yes. And that's how that goes. Yeah.

Erin: 14:46

Yes. Because I will tell you, doctors do not know the state regs in my state. They do not know the state regs. They just assume everybody can go

Kacie: 14:54

everywhere, you know? And like, God bless doctors because we need'em. And they do. I've, they, I could not do what they do, but there are times where it's like. Okay. I know you're really busy, but so are we. Can we just take one second here and listen to what I have to say? I'm not trying to say you're wrong, not, but you know what you know and I know what I know. So can we come together on that versus it being a right or wrong or, yeah.

Erin: 15:21

Yes. And if the family can advocate for themselves and tell the doctor, this is just from my experience, they have to be able to walk or self-propel in a wheelchair to be able to come back. So this is what we need. You know what I mean? Like these are the goals that we need. And if you, as a leader in the community can set your family members up if they're willing and capable, right? Yeah. To give them something certain to control in. In uncertain times, you're gonna feel less stuck. You're gonna feel more, more in control, and hopefully have a much better outcome for everyone involved, including the hospital. including the hospital or the rehab. Clear is kind. Clear is kind. Yes, to add to that, the most clear in the room is the most influential.

Kacie: 16:07

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, just it doesn't matter. They're different. They're different because people don't communicate like that. And that goes back to being real, a human. Like we don't have to show up as somebody, we're not, we're an expert. We have this knowledge, but we have to be real and vulnerable and. We don't have to perform, you know, you don't have to go into being something that you're not because you think that's what you should be doing. Like the families don't know, let's just do what's, what's best for the whole journey.

Erin: 16:39

Yeah. Even if you've only been there for six months, you have a six month head start to a family member who's never done this before, you are an expert. And I just wanted to say that Kacie made this comment earlier that she's referencing right now, and she said. I'm no longer performing, I'm being, and that is a huge shift. That's a huge transition in life. Mm-hmm. And I think if people can use that in a director of nursing position in a sales liaison position, in a leadership position and say, I'm not performing for you. I'm telling you how to survive this change, this transition for you. I'm being real with you.

Kacie: 17:21

Yeah, being real. I think it comes down to we all, nobody wants to be wrong. Nobody wants to be, you know, feel like they're wrong. Everybody has the best intentions and that's why people perform. You know, people show up up to try to. Do what is right, but we only know what we know. And I think that if, if you are acting like you know more than you do, you're never actually going to be able to be, because you're always going to be performing and acting and or when you're honest or real or being, you can say, I, I'm not sure, but I'm going to find that out for you. And then you learn and you know, it's more of a transition together, then you're honest. And that's, that's, um. It's important for the patient's experience too, that they see that you're, you're there, you're not just checking off another box in the process.

Erin: 18:17

I love this context or this concept of pre-framing, reframing, and then deframing, you can preframe somebody by saying, well, based on my experience, this is what I would expect. Yeah. Now you're not wrong. You're not going to be wrong. No. Because it is literally going to be based on my experience. And so you have set the boundaries, the expectations in that moment. Yeah. that's a powerful phrase. It is, right? And then to de frame somebody and reframe it from, from the, the very beginning where it's like you were only wanting to move so and so from assisted living to memory care because it's gonna benefit you. We have to change that mindset.

Kacie: 18:59

Yeah. Because you have an open bed. Like not, we should have people that are coming to us already, like that shouldn't be what we're trying to do. That should be, You know, we, we should be focusing on the patients and being that per that place in the community that people are already coming to Yes. A sustainable, well, flow because you have built those relationships.

Erin: 19:18

yeah. So true. So when somebody comes to you with that kind of statement mm-hmm. I would say. Think to yourself, red flag. We need to reframe that. I read a book, it's called Seth Godin's Tribes, and one of the things that stood out to me was people will believe what they tell themselves.

Kacie: 19:40

Oh, that is amazing.

Erin: 19:42

Want to affect change in someone's life and to reframe that, you've got to tell them a new story. So when they tell you that you only wanna move my loved one from assisted living to memory care because you have a bed and you have somebody that wants her room, the meaning that they are placing on that story. They do not wanna be vulnerable. They may not wanna see what's going on. And right now, I'm assuming that that's untrue because I'm sure in some places that may be true, but you're gonna have to change that story. Yeah. You can't fight that story. Okay. You can't ignore that story because, well, you don't wanna tell they're wrong.

Kacie: 20:23

Right. That's still their perspective. Yep.

Erin: 20:25

Mm-hmm. Right. But you do wanna say, I understand this is very difficult. Here are some of the reasons. Why this move is the best move

Kacie: 20:35

okay. Or have you considered thinking of it this way, or these, you know, these things and how this could affect and allowing them to be in control of, of thinking it, Yes. we can provide the information, but you can't make'em change. But you can try to give it in a way that doesn't make them feel. Like they're wrong or not showing up how they should be or those types of competition type of mindsets. I feel like. Yeah,

Erin: 21:05

well they're shutting down. They don't wanna feel vulnerable to that moment.'cause it's grief, loss, fear, uncertainty, it's all the things. Yeah. Yeah. We don't fight people. No. We fight emotions. We mismanage or we manage those emotions and we have to be aware with ourselves. Can I stand in the discomfort of this? So they can see it from a different perspective,

Kacie: 21:31

isn't it? While I had a conversation not long ago where there was an issue with a communication, and I would, she kept saying they're going and they're talking to these people and they're not communicating. It is a communication, you know. Breaking that down into like, okay, you're telling me this is what you're feeling, but that's not what the problem is. You're feeling that is the problem and I, I'm acknowledging your feeling, but we need to look and see what actually is the barrier here. Because just because we feel that way doesn't mean that is the problem. And trying to get people to see that and want to see that maybe. The barrier isn't their feeling. You know what I mean? It is very, it's so interesting because it's so dynamic and different with each person based on how vulnerable and willing they are to see inside themselves,

Erin: 22:20

Yeah. It's the story they tell themselves truly. Mm-hmm. and if you can get good at that, a good at reframing and preframing the story and identifying somebody shutting down. They're getting too vulnerable and redirecting the blame. you can help people in very profound ways. Okay, so we wanna play a fun game. It's called agree, disagree, or it's complicated, and here's why.

Kacie: 22:49

it kind of sounds like we should have like Facebook statuses or something to update with this, like, okay.

Erin: 22:56

I know. So I'm gonna ask a question and then she's gonna ask a question and we're just gonna like rapid fire. This, this is not pre-planned. I don't know what she's throwing me. She doesn't know what I'm throwing her. But I think it's important, to have these moments of growth and clarity and do we agree? Do we not agree? We have different perspectives. so this will be fun. So statement number one. Are you ready, Kacie?

Kacie: 23:21

I am so ready.

Erin: 23:22

Okay.

Kacie: 23:23

I'm nervous a little bit. Families.

Erin: 23:25

I know families don't want honesty. During transitions of care,

Kacie: 23:33

I would say disagree. Disagree majorly. here's why. Everybody wants honest, like they wanna know what's going on. They don't want you to make them feel better. They wanna know what to expect and how to pivot with that and set things up. And the sooner you can be clear and honest with them about it, then they can do what they need to do. If we're fluffing it and making it seem softer or performing and not being, it's not good for anybody.

Erin: 24:01

Yeah, yeah. I think that you can be transparent with. Very few words and get your point across.

Kacie: 24:09

Yeah, I think that the few words are the best. sometimes, sometimes myself I can get into, I wanna explain, like, I wanna help them understand, and sometimes they don't need to understand to the level that maybe I'm trying to go to. But, we're all growing and learning, right?

Erin: 24:27

Yep.

Kacie: 24:27

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Ready?

Erin: 24:30

Okay. I'm ready.

Kacie: 24:31

Okay. Sales is responsible for census or owns census

Erin: 24:37

sales owns census. I'm gonna disagree, but I'm gonna say it's complicated.

Kacie: 24:43

Yeah.

Erin: 24:44

Because I believe. the whole industry says that sales owns census. but I have always operated that sales was a team sport. And so I have heard many stories where people want the ED or the administrator involved in sales. And then I've also heard stories where they told the ED to stay out of sales, which obviously becomes very complicated, but the best communities. have a team that sells, that has a culture that sells, that understand that transitions are personal and that they need a guide and really do help families through that process.

Kacie: 25:31

Yes. because like little chameleons,

Erin: 25:34

yes. Yeah. I do believe the lasting legacy of your community is the way that people feel when they walk out the door.

Kacie: 25:40

Yeah, it's culture and I think it's called not culture, just for, um, families and patients. It's also for team too. You know, your team has to feel good when they walk out the door too.

Erin: 25:51

Yes, absolutely. 100%. Okay. sales should stay out of clinical conversations.

Kacie: 26:03

Ah, I'm gonna disagree. there's a boundary that like I, you know, it's that dynamic, that nice little dynamic of I'm not going to make any clinical decisions or say that I am the best person to do that. But I do think that clinical can be very clinical and they're good at what they do, and sometimes they don't critically think outside of that. So if they see behaviors, they're like, Uhuh, we don't want that in here. But a behavior is a perspective. My behavior could be running down the hall and throwing things, or it could just be at night. Sometimes I yell out that I want a pillow or, you know, whatever it might be. It could be very different. So I think that clinical needs, sales to be that piece and you have to form that respect and trust there. And sometimes that is, that can be, it is the best thing when it happens. But, woo, getting it there. I wonder what clinical feels about it. Like I wonder how they feel about, because they don't usually want the relationship in the beginning, you know, they don't see the value in it. But

Erin: 27:09

yeah,

Kacie: 27:10

I don't know.

Erin: 27:11

I think that is a very complicated question, and I think it takes a certain sales person. Credibility of that salesperson.

Kacie: 27:26

Oh, it does? Yeah.

Erin: 27:28

To be allowed into a clinical conversation. And you are correct. Like I do think that it, it, you need the problem solver. You need the outside the box thinker. if the clinical person can't see the tree through the forest,

Kacie: 27:43

you know what I mean? Yeah. And I, I mean if you think of like their skillset, whatever it's looking at, they look objectively at things and that's what they, that's what, how they react or how they treat. So it makes sense, but man, if you let them like have say on all of, all of the referrals that you get or whatever, you will not have a very good census because. Sometimes people don't look good on paper. Yeah. Sometimes, and if you're just looking objectively. Yeah.

Erin: 28:14

And I think it's also, if you really understand the feedback loops and the science and the neuroscience and the value of both the person who wants them in, and then the person who is struggling to understand how they may can meet the needs, like having a conversation as the ed. Hearing both sides and finding the common ground. That's a

Kacie: 28:40

very powerful conversation. It is very powerful. I think that in that conversation, you have to look at the patient again. You know what is best for this patient? Not have a um, hold or expected outcome with it. We just wanna do what's best for this patient. If we're best for them, great. If we're not, that's great too and let's help recommend them somewhere else and let's do it timely and not fight while we're doing it. Like if we just do it that way, where it's what's best for the patient, it kind of takes that like pressure off of, I don't know, meeting that expectation. That isn't even really an expectation, Does that make sense? Yeah. Is how I said that.

Erin: 29:18

Yeah. It's

Kacie: 29:19

true.

Erin: 29:19

Okay. It's so true. All right. Okay.

Kacie: 29:21

Ready? Most transitions, failures are communication, not capacity. That's got some depth to it,

Erin: 29:31

that really does. Ooh. I would say I agree that most transition failures are due to a lack of communication, but the depth comes into the leader's capacity to have the conversation.

Kacie: 29:45

yes.

Erin: 29:46

Yep. 100%. And I think capacity is a real big, like it's something I'm trying to shine a lot of light on. So, gosh, I appreciate that, that, um, that, that question when you're winging it or when you're on a unicycle and you're, you're, you've got nine plates spitting in the air, what's the first thing that goes? Proactive communication because you become very task oriented, processing and, you don't see the forest through the trees. You don't see the tree through the forest. You just see the foot in front of you and. You don't understand that communication can actually remove five of those nine spinning plates,

Kacie: 30:29

but you don't have to do it all. Like you're not responsible for all of the outcomes and owning those outcomes, and you just have a piece in it. And if you communicate or you know, get the people involved that need everybody on the same page, like you wouldn't, it wouldn't all be on you. The world or the unicycle.

Erin: 30:47

Yes. Yeah. I wouldn't

Kacie: 30:48

be able to ride a unicycle, I don't think.

Erin: 30:50

No. No, you cannot create more time if you're winging it. If you are winging it, truly, if you are winging it, you have no time

Kacie: 31:01

winging it. I like how you're saying that,'cause I would think of it as an owning it thing. I feel like I'm a winger, but like I am more of a, I guess winging it as in, let's try this and see how it goes. If it doesn't go well, we'll change. but maybe, we're good.

Erin: 31:19

We're good wingers. Okay. Yeah. Because we work in healthcare and you really have to go from one thing to another, but you can't. But if you're intentional, ah, an intentional winger, that's what it's, yes. If you're intentional, yes, then you're not winging it. Yeah. You're literally being intentional with your time. You're just being, yeah. Okay, I see. But the fact that you can. Come on a podcast and create these statements that's winging it. And you're good at that, right? Yeah. Because that's our job. We have to be able to do that. But if you're intentional with knowing that these transitions are coming and you have a pattern that you do with family members,

Kacie: 32:01

yes.

Erin: 32:01

You're not winging that. You're being really intentional with that.

Kacie: 32:04

Yeah. I love that. I'm glad that I said it.

Erin: 32:07

Yes. If you're just coming into a meeting and you're not prepared and you're just gonna wing it, you're good fixing to get like. Tore up from the floor.

Kacie: 32:14

You need to have some, you need to have an idea.

Erin: 32:17

that's good. You are not gonna build capacity if you're constantly winging it all the time you have where you're you, where you are not developing others, where you are not explaining how to do things, and you are responsible for everything. There is no intentionality there.

Kacie: 32:32

Capacity is a good word. Um, I know you said you're trying to shine light on that and something that I also have noticed'cause I have a big heart and you know, sometimes I, I give it my all, like, my whole heart and people know I wear my heart on my sleeve. And some people don't have the capacity to feel that. Yes. Because they don't operate that way and that's okay. Correct. But trying to align people and let them understand that I'm actually not. Over the top, or I'm not, I'm not feeling too much and I can't just not care because that's who I am. So the capacity of either your mind, your heart, whatever. We're all different.

Erin: 33:10

Yep. You flex the muscle. You can't build muscle without tearing it down first. and practicing it.

Kacie: 33:17

And building it up.

Erin: 33:19

Yeah. Yes.

Kacie: 33:20

So is this a process problem or is this a people problem? missed follow up calls.

Erin: 33:25

Missed follow up calls.

Kacie: 33:27

Yeah. Take that however you want as far as if it's like a missed, like you're not. Following up either with a family or with a nurse or with, whatever, missed follow up calls. Is that a process problem or a people problem?

Erin: 33:40

I know that's really hard because I think it's both. Yeah, I do. I think it's both. I think that, sometimes things fall through the cracks. But if you don't tell your concierge that tours and sales calls are important and they just take a message and you've got seven messages and you don't get them until two 30 in the afternoon, that's a process and a people problem.

Kacie: 34:05

Yep. Yeah. I think it usually, it usually goes hand in hand, you know, like. We have to have processes, but we have to have people too. You have to have the people, like people have to know communication, clear as kind, expectations of what the process is and how they show up in that. that's where I go with it.

Erin: 34:23

when you get a new concierge, they really need to understand number one, like the number one. Most important call is when somebody wants to know more information.

Kacie: 34:36

I don't know what a concierge is. We don't have those. So what do you mean? Like,

Erin: 34:40

I think I'm like a receptionist.

Kacie: 34:41

The front desk. Okay. Alright. Alright.

Erin: 34:44

Yeah. So I started out, I started out as the receptionist, inside a senior living community. I understand the power. Of the person at the front desk, I understand the power of the person answering the phone power of the

Kacie: 34:57

concierge, like that just sounds like whew.

Erin: 35:01

Yes. They're the neck of the community. My concierge, my front desk receptionist, I would really call her by assistant because like she literally knew my vision, knew what was important to me, and she would direct me where I needed to go because residents and families go to the front desk. And they complain or they, or they leave little nuggets. And then she would say to me, Erin, you need to go do this, or Erin, you need to pay attention to this great

Kacie: 35:29

communication.

Erin: 35:30

Because she knew what was important to me.

Kacie: 35:33

Yeah. And if, well, and if she didn't communicate that, what would happen? Like you would be upset, you would be able to act on it. The family would be, you know, there's, it's a whole trickle down effect. So I think she probably also had. A buy-in to whatever the goal was or the vision or you know, and I think that's really huge for any organization.

Erin: 35:51

Yes. And if there wasn't a process or And if she didn't know how to train the next person, yeah. Hey, this is really important. We need to do this. When you hear a resident say this, or you gotta smile when you answer the phone. And why? And why The power of the first impression.

Kacie: 36:08

Yes. I think sometimes, like there's so many tools and stuff that get rolled out or processes, but you can roll everything out. But if you don't let the people know and understand and truly feel empowered and want to make it successful and just shove more things down their throat, like it's not gonna work. Like you have to communicate and let people understand and not think that somebody else should be doing that. You know, it's a leader that's a leader that does that. Yes,

Erin: 36:36

yes. So as we wrap this up. Because we hope that was successful. We hope that was helpful to you, in powerful ways. One of the things that I talk about in this presentation that I do, about transitions is an acronym of what a, a really good transition is, which is just true, which really lines up with what Kacie's quote was. I'm no longer performing. Yeah. I'm just being true. It's being true to who I am, to myself, to my vision, to what I want my community to be, and that's a trust. Build trust with the people who are going through these transitions. Be responsive. Really responsiveness equals respect, and the speed of that equals the care. Understand, they're just being advocates. So if they're fighting, if they're fighting, if they're freezing, if they're fawning, that is a trauma response to transition. Yeah, because it's scary and uncertain. And then to have empathy, you know, and to frame your words to where based on my experience. In my opinion, these are things that you can look for, that's important. anything that you wanna add?

Kacie: 37:47

understanding everybody, every piece. people want to control and they don't always want to understand and I think if you can encourage and also admit whenever you're, you might be wrong or not know, like those types of things really show people how they can show up in those situations.

Erin: 38:07

yes.

Kacie: 38:07

Yeah.

Erin: 38:08

referral equals transactional, but relationships, that's where referrals actually come from.

Kacie: 38:16

Whenever you create trust, it makes you reliable too. And whenever you're reliable, that, that's relationships, that's referrals. I was looking, I'm trying to think of how I wanna say this, because. I think it needs to be said whenever we think about how we're showing up and we're performing. We don't have to be whatever we think we should be for the patient If we're honest, if we can't take them, we don't have to be reliable all the time in what we think it is, like communicating that we, we can't service that patient. We don't have physical therapy or we don't have a bed or whatever. Just being honest or telling the hospital we could take them on Saturday, not today, versus not communicating that. That's what the reliability is, you know, so you can be clear and you can communicate and whatever, but you also need to be honest, even whenever you can't show up like you usually do because that's what's really gonna drive that reliability part. and then that's what helps really hone in on that relationship. I think just being honest about it, sometimes people don't, they show up in that performing of. You know, we wanna make them happy. No, we wanna be honest with what's going on so that they come back

Erin: 39:27

Manage those expectations, man. So in summary, You know, this was an important conversation that Kacie wanted to have, and I agree 100%. And I think some of the high points are here. Transitions are leadership moments. They really are. And if you're not taking advantage of them, I think you're really losing out on a lot of, Leadership capital within your community, and also the referrals from outside. in the, the broader community, in the cities and the counties that you live in, emotions move faster than logic. That is a sales principle and a leadership principle period. If you can manage the expectations and manage and lead and guide and direct and validate emotions, you're going to get faster responses. Communication is not optional. Kacie has made that very evident. sales, service and leadership all intersect inside of long-term care, senior living. They just really do. And relationships don't end when the residents leave.

Kacie: 40:29

No.

Erin: 40:30

That's where the referrals really, that's where the number one referral base that you have, if you are an established community or the people who no longer live inside of your community. And that's an important to understand,

Kacie: 40:42

especially for assisted living or personal care, even home health like that. Yes. You need to, that trust in how you showed up For sure. And what they say about you and the care.

Erin: 40:53

Mm-hmm. Yes. So if this episode, resonated with you, give it to somebody who needs to understand how important transitions are. Kacie represents long-term care and assisted living. Then I represent the assisted living side. So I think it's a great episode of both perspectives. So I agree. Thank you, Kacie, for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you. Alright. And as always, for my listeners, always aspire for more. Knowing that you are enough, have a good day. Oh, I love that.