Aspire for More with Erin
Aspire for More with Erin
What is the TruNorth way?
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welcome back to another fun episode of the aspire for more with Aaron podcast, where I have a good friend, Mr. Chris Kincaid, the CEO of true North management with me today. Thank you, Chris, for being here.
Chris:Absolutely. Thank you for the invitation.
Erin:I was just telling you that I get your name confused. I call you Chris North sometimes, Mr. Big. maybe that could be your nickname right inside Senior Living Now, especially with a name like True North Management, but we'll stick with Chris Kincaid, right?
Chris:Okay. I appreciate that.
Erin:So you are starting a management company that aspire for more with Aaron is an enterprise network partner with true north management and it's really exciting to be able to be a part of something unique and hopefully disruptive in some ways. And to add value and valuable ways to our senior living, profession. So tell me, more about True North and your mission.
Chris:Absolutely. I think True North is, a representative of 28 years of experience, both good and bad, in this industry. I started actually when I was still in college. Running a little sterling house community, a little 33 apartment sterling house community. I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew that I wanted to, make a difference, work with seniors, I'd always been close to seniors and my family and friends and old town I grew up in. So it was always just very natural for me. My great grandmother was probably one of the closest people I had in my life, and I actually had opportunities to spend summers with her in Colorado, both as a kid, and then even again while I was in college, she had a stroke I, and she lived in Colorado at the time. drove out there and was with her when she was dismissed from the hospital and, took care of her for about two months while she rehabbed and gained strength. it was, I think it was all, the entire foundation of what we do. Is, is based on not just resident based services and needs, but employee and mission based. And if you're going to do it and do it right in this industry, you need to be able to adjust and be that flexible person to provide the support that's needed. And whatever you're doing.
Erin:Yeah. I've heard you say before, the employee cycle and the resident cycle need to be treated the same way. And I don't know if I've heard that before. What do you mean when you say that? I assume that has something to do with your True North mission, right?
Chris:yes, it does. We have a unique opportunity in this industry and It's it's easy to look at from inside of it and being able to make the comparison. But for those who really don't understand exactly what I'm talking about, just to stand back a little bit. And look at what are the steps that take to, recruit and, bring in residents. What is, what are those things that you do to bring in a resident to make them feel welcome? value to have a resident based service, apply that to the employee as well. And it's the same thing. I read, journal articles from time to time that talk about, we maybe we need to start bringing our marketing people in and helping us recruit for staff. that's exactly correct. Everything you do in a resident life cycle from, getting a lead, working with that lead, working with the family, growing to understand them, bringing them in, onboarding and so forth, it's the same thing you do with staff. When you do that, you do it consistently and focus on each part of the life cycle, it really can, drop your turnover and, have, just as we try to have, increased length of stay with residents, it's that increased tenure with employees as well.
Erin:Yeah, it's that watched versus seen mentality, which is certainly, a dichotomy of feeling that people feel when they're seen versus watched. And, most people don't want extravagant things. They just want to feel connected and a sense of belonging, really. What that is for everybody is different, but I think it boils down to those two things. We all have this desire to belong to something bigger than ourselves. And we all want to feel connected and plugged in to that team, which is why I was excited to be a part of this. Because I do come from teams and then all of a sudden I was by myself solo preneur and then, comes an opportunity to be a part of something bigger than myself and to be connected to other people. With like minded people. It's exciting to think that, that a community could come and be a part of True North and be connected with enterprise network partners who just want success for everybody, There's just an element of. An ENP like myself or Trestle Hospitality or other people that just want you to succeed. There's no, there's nothing else other than success, which is, that releases a little bit of pressure, I think. Was that your point? Your goal?
Chris:exactly. Yes, exactly. It's really to be able to come in and to a community or an operation in any size, any type, any location, and be able to get to know the people. Everything that the industry talks about is resident centered care, or resident specific. what about The culture and operations centered communities, our client communities have the same thing. There's people there that are full of compassion. They're committed. they have a mission. Most people in this industry are in it because they have experience with seniors. That's an important piece to them. It's very much a heart industry. And I think when anybody loses that, that focus, that it is a hard industry and that hard industry provides that mission. If they lose that, then that completely takes away any type Of respect, or mutual goals that can be set up together between the client and the management company or in any type of operation. it's highly important to show that we are a heart filled human being. First, and that tends to start to develop the relationship, develop trust. That's the number one thing that, that, families and potential residents look for is, can I trust you to take care of my mother? And if that trust isn't there, then they choose to go somewhere else, move their mom in somewhere else. If that trust isn't there with an employee, That employee tends to move on to something else. Yes, it may be a paycheck, but if that's all it is, then you're not going to get the full, reap the full benefit of that person's heart, that person's mission,
Erin:believe we're entering a time that, Is more emotionally intelligent based than there is any kind of technical skill, or IQ based profession. Like we thought that it used to be, we're moving into a place where this is literally a service based. Industry and we have to be able to serve everyone and it can't be just the executive director either because one person can't do it all without the approach of who's pouring into the executive director of the executive director is pouring into everybody else. And then who's pouring into the person who's pouring into the executive director and, the cycle keeps going and. When we lose sight of how important mentorship and leadership and that emotional connection and that emotional deposit bank account type thing, we lose connection. We just lose it. I'm sure you've seen it in your 28 years.
Chris:yes, much more than I wish that I had. and it was really pretty prevalent a number of years ago. To your point, it has softened a bit. There's still those situations where, you know, whether it's a merger or acquisition or a change in management company, whatever the case may be, and all of a sudden there's this new operation that comes in and the people come in and introduce themselves and, I'm so and so I've been doing this a long time and it's my way or the highway and it's that, fear based management approach. It's hard to do your job and do a good job when you're afraid to take that. That out and replace it with that trust and that support.
Erin:You're going
Chris:to see a much more happy, much more engaged employee. And I don't mean employee by way of caregivers and maintenance and so forth. I'm talking about executive directors, field management, and so forth. You, you have to take into account what their mission is and the heart that's driving that mission. you take that out and focus purely on operations and the bottom line, and it's going to be a disaster. And that's, I've seen that over and over again, unfortunately.
Erin:Yeah. I've been part of a transition where I was working at a community when it sold and then the new company came on board and I was excited about that transition. Honestly, I wanted, I wanted to be. It was my path, right? We were going from non profit to for profit and I was gonna, I was gonna be all that I could be in, in that realm, but that wasn't in the cards, they chose someone else and it's, it is fear. That is that fear that's when that transition comes, there's This void that, that falls into it and sometimes people know what to do. Sometimes they don't know what to do. why do you feel that companies tend to not want to keep the team that they're in, or is that a wrong perception and. To follow up with that question, I guess it would be, does it need a full frontal aggressive attack or can it be a soft kind of glide into change?
Chris:I think it can be both at the same time. you don't have to tiptoe and walk on eggshells. when you're either the operation, the local operation itself or the management company who now is responsible for that operation. It doesn't have to be an either or, it can be an and the part of that though is again, getting to know the individual, getting to know the leadership, the, in that building, or that series of buildings in the portfolio, getting to know those people, know their heart, know what their passion is, know what their mission is. Once you do that. scored and taken a lot in within just a short period of time. And just those conversations can start to build that trust. If it's coming in and say, your margin looks terrible, your census is awful, your employee turnover is bad, and your length of stay, your resident attrition is out the window, then that's going to do nothing but squash that person. How do you know that it was that person, that executive director, that D. O. N., who was responsible or the cause of their management and tenure has caused this, or was it the previous management in which they reported to? Frankly, it doesn't matter at that point. You can get to root cause And do it in a by leading with kindness and gaining that, respect and mutual trust at the same time. So it's not an either or and it's not a slow or fast. It's doing it all at the same time by just having normal conversations getting to know each other.
Erin:Yeah, and recognizing it's there. I think just talking about it will lessen the anxiety, change is hard. Change is also a choice. Like you can choose to look at it from a positive or negative way. And I think how the first approach comes out, just like you said, is important from both the executive director and the people in the new management company coming in. So I believe that plan of transition is one that would offer such grace and trust, because there's no way to bring our own people, which is always the number one fear. we're enterprise network partners, we're here to support the people on the ground because that's, what's important, not creating a team full of our people, We want to create the team that's there and empower them to grow, To become goal oriented, to growth oriented, because when you're growth oriented, all your goals are going to happen anyway,
Chris:Exactly. Yeah. And that's part of, I think what's so important to, to build that trust in those relationships is to look for those people that are confident, compassionate, foster that local culture and creativity. Again, coming in, first impression, wall up, we're the boss, we're going to sit down and talk about occupancy growth, cutting expenses, enhancing the NOI. Oh, and by the way, also increasing employee and resident satisfaction. Maybe that should be done in a little bit different manner and, a little bit more of a kindness approach. But, Being able to, again, getting to know that local group and seeing what their culture, what their creativity can be and foster that. That's how you fix things, is by fostering that local culture and creativity and listening. to the people with the boots on the ground, who know what they're talking about.
Erin:Seen and watched. What? No. What is it? Watched and seen. There's a, they're using that, phrase again. So True North has a management company, which we've been talking about, but it also has this other side of it that is intriguing called the compass assessment. Correct?
Chris:Correct.
Erin:All right. So I don't know much about the. Next layer up, And all the different things that people do before they purchase and, acquire and merge companies. So explain to me what a compass assessment is, and then who wants that? Talk to an executive director about what a merger takes looks like, or what a compass assessment would do.
Chris:first of all, how many times have you purchased a home or know of people who have purchased a home? Personal home.
Erin:Three times for
Chris:me. Okay. And how often did you have a home assessment, done where you got people who come in and take a look at everything within the home, whether it's electrician, plumber, roofing person, HVAC, all of that. so you know exactly what you're getting and if there's something that's broken, the previous, the owners, the current owners fix it before you come in.
Erin:It's
Chris:the same thing, only we're not just real estate, we're a hospitality company. We're a restaurant. We're a clinical company. All of these different things that combine to be a part of an operation of a typical assisted living or senior living community in general. So doesn't it make sense to check on the temperature and find out specifics of how each of those other areas are doing as well? the typical transaction usually will have at least somebody, whether it's somebody that is contracted externally or within an organization themselves that will go to a community that they're looking to purchase and at least do a physical plant assessment. To see what the condition of the roof is in, the condition of the nurse call system, the sprinkler system, the maintenance that's been set up and in place, and get an overall physical view of that particular asset that's looking to be purchased. But it's assisted living, and again, there's all these other pieces to it as well. What's the resident satisfaction rate? What's, what kind of, of reputation does that community have? Obviously the reputation's going to usually drive and dictate the census. what about their regulatory? How often and when was the last time that they received the state survey? what was the outcome of that survey? Did they have eight pages of deficiencies or was it a couple of minor paperwork items? or deficiency free? all of these things affect the value of the community and even more so once this community is purchased, how quickly it can turn around and be that community hitting on all cylinders. And so in this case, it's a multi cylinder, type of assessment that we do. And it's, COMPASS actually stands for something. It's C O M P assessment. So C is clinical. Anything having to do with the clinical, regulatory, and risk management of the operation of that community. O, operations. what's the, again, resident satisfaction, employee satisfaction, turnover of both. what's the accounts receivable look like? What's the accounts payable look like? Are they massively behind in their bills? Are they massively behind in getting rents from residents? we have an aging report that's sitting there with 48, 000 on it of uncollected rent. that's going to affect the value of your community itself. And will increase the time that it takes to pay. Get it on the financial, financially healthy track. So then you have M, marketing. Obviously you got to go in there and know how they're positioned in the marketplace, what their competitive analysis looks like, again, reputation in the community, are referral sources referring. You have your typical referral sources in a given location. what kind of relationship do you have with them? what kind of relationship and reputation do you have with your competitors? There's so many different areas to look at from that perspective. And then finally, P of Compass is the physical plant, and that goes back to what we were talking about a little while ago of going in, boots on the ground, looking at every single piece of equipment, physical plant itself, systems, and so forth. And if there needs to be CapEx money spent, you've got out of five HVAC systems, you might have three that need to be replaced. Oh, and by the way, there's a couple of hot water heaters that are starting to go out. These things add up and they add up very quickly. So again, it allows that COMPASS assessment, clinical operations, marketing, and physical plant assessment It is just that we go in physically, we spend time in a community or a set of communities in the portfolio that's looking to be acquired, and we'll report back within a short period of time, all of our findings, all of our suggestions. And then either the client themselves can take those findings and suggestions and go take care of them themselves, or they can hire us and we can come in and do it all. it's very flexible and it allows for a number of different options for the client. And they know then what they're getting, what they're about to spend this seven figures on purchasing. it is exactly what they hope it would be, or they know what price to put on.
Erin:Yeah, and it seems to be the right time to have that type of service available to you. If you are looking to merge or acquire or become a management company to a new community because of the way that the interest rates are and building is slowing down and the future of senior living, we know is coming, but the headwinds are strong right now. So having this. Available to people seems to be a pretty good service to have. You don't want to not know what you're investing in from people who know what to look at.
Chris:Exactly. And that's just it. you have a number of different types of investors in this industry. You have your mom and pops that have, it might be a married couple or a couple of people who own one, two, three, maybe as many as four or five communities in a particular geographic area. But then you also have the larger investors. let's face it. In your housing and anything happening to do with senior care and services. Is not only exploding now, but will continue to explode exponentially the decades to come. Everybody talks about, oh, you're probably so busy with all the baby boomers. it's just the it's the older baby boomers right now that we're just now seeing that are coming in and or asking services. So this huge silver tsunami hasn't really even hit, nor will it for another approximately three years. three to five years. but as a result of that, investors are always looking at what's a good place to put my money. Where can I invest and get a good rate of return? we always know we've known for years now that senior housing, senior living and services. are almost recession proof, not completely, but almost recession proof. And so you've got people out there who have all this money, but they don't know anything about senior housing. You have people out there who are in other industries. They might be in multifamily, or office buildings or something like that. And think, Oh, I've made all my money in real estate. What's this? It's just more real estate. No, it's not. Most people who come at it from that angle get a reality check pretty quickly. So again, that's where companies like TrueNorth, the resources, experience, and service we bring to the table, we're able to educate these investors. Then you look at, are they active investors, where they want to purchase and then be a part. Of the management, the operation, learn their residents, learn their staff, or do they want to be in, passive investors? And that is growing tremendously right there, is again, I want to spend my money on purchasing these 5, 6, 8, 10 communities and then step back and just let the check roll in. So that's the passive investor. And again, that's where we can come in, educate, but also then take care of all of the operations as well. regardless of who it is, how big, how many locations, how small, passive, active, mom and pop, you name it, we can, be flexible, to meet the need of whoever
Erin:it is. Working in senior living is not, laid back waiting for the check to come in. Maybe if you hire a True North management company, it is.
Chris:Exactly. Yeah, it's not a cookie cutter. It's not a one size fits all. and it's not a my way or the highway, which again comes back to trying to pick that one size fits all. if you have that opportunity, take it. If you have that opportunity to work with somebody who can scale up or down and meet that specific need, take it. And we are it.
Erin:That's right. I never realized it wasn't until recently, I would say in the last year that I realized that people actually thought of senior living as a real estate company. I never realized that. like for me, it just seemed that we're a service industry. We are literally serving people and taking care of them. It's a health, we are healthcare. We are not, healthcare as in skilled nursing, but it's the same But we're healthcare. And never did I understand, that there were people that thought this was a real estate industry. And when I got that, I was like, Oh, that makes sense. There's so many things now that makes sense to me. because I felt like for a long time, it was not speaking the same language as other people and come to find out I wasn't.
Chris:and I think it's the evolution of the industry.
Erin:20,
Chris:25 years ago, assisted living was more of a social, my first community and then set of communities that I oversaw as a multi site operator, it was not unusual to have a small percentage, maybe 10, 15 percent of your residents still drove. And there was still, there were still, resident parking signs out in the parking lot. and I did. I, my little 33 apartment community, I had four or five residences, which came and went as they wanted, still drove, still had their cars and so forth. And, the evolution of the industry is such that the assisted living now was the nursing home of yesterday. The nursing home now was the hospital of yesterday.
Erin:People
Chris:are staying in their home longer. And as a result, they're usually have some, the pillow dating debilitating, illness that they are suffering from whatever that illness may be. but it's farther along in the process by the time they move into it. And there's a lot more options out there with home care and so forth. Yeah. it is. It used to be considered a social real estate operation. And it's now, it's a social operation, but very much a clinical and medical model all combined in that. And those who focus on all of that. Are the successful, you just look at purely physical and you're leaving out huge amounts of your operation.
Erin:Yeah, it goes back to that. Everyone wants to feel like they belong and that they're connected and that includes families, residents and associates.
Chris:It goes back to that part of the, that's part of the evolution as well. it's only been in the last few years. Yeah. have you heard messaging and talking points focus more than just residents used to? It was residents 100%. Everything has to do with the resident. that's great. And, it in theory, that sounds wonderful. But if you focus 100 percent on your residents, and you're not including the family, and you're not including your employees, then that in itself, by not including them, as the full, sounds cliche, but the full three legged stool of residents, families and staff. If you're not including the families and staff, then in itself it becomes a disaster for the resident because you don't have the communication of families who don't know what's going on. Same thing with the staff. They don't feel appreciated. They're not contributing. They're not a part of the operation and they go elsewhere. Both of those and that will drastically affect the residents and the quality they receive.
Erin:Absolutely. It really does. Consistency is the name of the game in every format, in every aspect. Anything else, you want to add
Chris:Again, just to look at the industry as a whole, it is a heart industry with compassionate people who are mission driven, and if any part of that is ignored or squashed, it, it completely ruins any sort of relationship that you'll have with that person, of which you've just squashed their mission. I can't think of anything worse in an industry that is supposed to be, the heart driven, most intimate time that you have with people in their later stages of their lives and taking care of them for, in some cases, years. And you have to have that right kind of person with that heart, that compassion, that mission, and If you come in as an operating company or a referral source or an ancillary service, if you recognize that, you're going to be highly successful. If you come in opposite of that, where it's you're not even looking at the person, you're purely looking at census and bottom line. again, those are the people that are not going to be successful and you're essentially running any chance to build trust in that relationship.
Erin:People say that emotional intelligence is lumped into the soft skills. Those people have not worked in senior living. There is nothing. Easy, simple, or soft about caring for people in that need assisted living that, people dealing in serving people who are in traumatic states, connecting with people who are having to make a decision that they never wanted to make against their parents or loved one's wishes. There is nothing easy about that. And when we can honor. People's efforts and grow them and help them collaborate with people who respect and only want the best for them. I think that we can find real magic and I'm happy that you are taking on this challenge and that you and your team are going to make that mission become a reality. I'm excited to be a part of it.
Chris:And I'm thrilled that you're a part of it. Just the conversations you and I've had and hearing your heart, your experience, the compassion and mission that you bring to the table, we have to replicate that. More people in this industry that are like you. And I know I've said it before you for those who don't know, Aaron Thompson, she has a heart this big and she has a brain this big and have both of those. You better set up and listen to that person. And it's more people like that.
Erin:To give them permission to let their light shine. Yes. Absolutely.
Chris:Exactly. And feel safe. Feel safe that they can do that. It is a safe, it needs to be a safe environment, to have the hard conversations and at the same time be able to celebrate successes and so forth.
Erin:you get me all pumped up and ready to go. it's exciting. It's exciting. So True North Management and the Compass Assessment is live and ready to go. And if you see us or hear that we're coming your way, be excited because, good things will come. Change is hard. Yes. But it's not always scary,
Chris:right? Exactly. And change, as long as it's improvement through change versus the other way around. That's our focus.
Erin:Yes, absolutely. The improvement. Yes. Thank you for being here today, Chris. I really appreciate it. And thank
Chris:you. Thank you for the invitation.
Erin:Yes. to all my listeners aspire for more for you.